[1. Call to Order.]
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I'D LIKE TO CALL THIS COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING, UH, TO ORDER FOR, WE'RE GONNA
[2. Presentation and Discussion on Rules and Procedures for City Council / Public Works Authority Meetings.]
REVIEW THE, OR TALK ABOUT OUR RULES AND PROCEDURES TODAY, AND OUR ILLUSTRIOUS CITY CLERK, IT'S GOING TO LEAD US OFF.UH, COREY ATKINSON, CITY CLERK.
GREAT TO BE WITH EVERYONE, UH, THIS AFTERNOON.
UM, A COUPLE MONTHS BACK, THE CITY OF EDMUND WENT THROUGH A PROCESS TO DEVELOP NEW STANDARDS FOR ITS AGENDA MANAGEMENT AS FAR AS PUTTING TOGETHER A EFFECTIVE, EFFICIENT, PROFESSIONAL AGENDA THAT WAS, UM, SUPPORTIVE OF OUR VALUES OF TRANSPARENCY AND ACCESSIBILITY TO THE PUBLIC, HELPING MEMBERS OF THE EDMUND PUBLIC UNDERSTAND THE BUSINESS THAT IS BEING CONDUCTED BY THE CITY.
DURING THAT PROCESS, UM, MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL IDENTIFIED THAT IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO MAYBE HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE RULES FOR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS AND PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY MEETINGS.
AND SO THE PURPOSE OF THIS MEETING THIS AFTERNOON IS TO TALK ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR ADOPTING SOME ADDITIONAL WRITTEN RULES, UH, FOR CITY COUNCIL AND PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY, UM, MEETINGS.
UM, FIRST, I, I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL.
THIS IS FUN IN THE SENSE OF BEYOND MY ROLE WITH THE CITY.
UM, I ALSO HAPPEN TO BE AN ADJUNCT PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE.
UM, AND ONE THING WE'RE GONNA WRESTLE WITH IN THIS WORKSHOP AND, AND IN CONVERSATIONS ABOUT OUR RULES IS WHETHER YOU CALL THE UNITED STATES A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OR A CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, YOU'RE ALWAYS GONNA BE WRESTLING WITH THE COMPETING VALUES OF EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE MEETINGS AND, UH, PARTICIPATIVE MEETINGS.
AND AS YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ELECTED TO REPRESENT, UH, THE CITIZENS OF EDMOND AND TO CONDUCT BUSINESS, UH, UH, UH, FOR THEM.
AND SO WE HAVE TO FIND A, A WAY TO EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY, UH, RUN THROUGH OUR MEETINGS WHILE ALSO MAKING SURE THAT INDIVIDUALS ARE AWARE OF THE BUSINESS THAT'S BEING CONDUCTED THERE.
UH, HAVE SOME METHODS TO, UH, UH, AS LAWFULLY REQUIRED PARTICIPATE.
UM, AND AGAIN, JUST UNDERSCORING THE VALUES OF ACCESSIBILITY AND TRANSPARENCY.
UM, AND JUST, AGAIN, I MENTIONED EARLIER THAT WE HAD MADE SOME RECENT CHANGES TO THE PACKET.
UM, I KNOW WE'VE, WE'VE ADDED NOTICE ON THE ABILITY TO CONTACT THE STAFF MEMBER THAT HAS CREATED THE AGENDA ITEM.
IF YOU'VE GOT QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT ITEM THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED BY CITY COUNCIL, YOU'VE GOT THE ABILITY TO CONTACT THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE IF YOU'D LIKE A COPY OF ANY AGENDA ITEM OR CONTRACT OR ANYTHING THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED.
WE'VE ADDED NEW, UM, INFORMATION RELATED TO THE FISCAL IMPACTS OF AGENDA ITEMS. AND AGAIN, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO DO WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE BEING CONSIDERED BY APPROPRIATE BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS.
AND AGAIN, THAT THERE'S A PARTICIPATIVE VALUE IN THE ITEMS THAT ARE BROUGHT TO CITY COUNCIL FOR CONSIDERATION.
AND SO TONIGHT, UH, OR EXCUSE ME, THIS AFTERNOON, UM, WE'RE, UM, HAVING A CONVERSATION.
WE, RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE NO FORMAL WRITTEN PROCEDURES FOR MEETINGS OTHER THAN THOSE SPECIFIED FOR CITIZEN COMMENTS.
THOSE FOUND IN THE CITY CHARTER AND EDMOND MUNICIPAL CODE, AND THOSE FOUND IN OKLAHOMA STATE LAW.
AND SO THE QUESTION I, I WANTED TO POSE TONIGHT IS, SHOULD THE CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY ADOPT RULES AND PROCEDURES TO INCREASE TRANSPARENCY, PROMOTE CONSISTENCY, AND EFFECTIVELY CONDUCT OPEN MEETINGS? SO, ONE OPTION IS, OF COURSE, NO CHANGES.
IT'S ALWAYS AN OPTION, UH, IN ANY TIME WE'RE CONSIDERING CHANGES.
ANOTHER OPTION WOULD BE TO ADOPT MAYBE WHAT OUR CURRENT PRACTICES ARE, BUT PUT THEM IN WRITING.
AND ANOTHER OPTION IS TO CREATE WRITTEN RULES, BUT MAYBE TRY TO IMPROVE THE PROCESSES AS WE, AS WE DEVELOP THOSE, THOSE WRITTEN RULES.
AND I JUST WANNA GO OVER SOME PROS OF ADOPTING THOSE RULES.
AGAIN, HAVING COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND WHAT THE RULES ARE, CONSISTENCY AND TREATMENT, BOTH FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, UH, PROTECT RIGHTS OF THE MAJORITY AND MINORITY ON COUNCIL.
I'VE BEEN BLESSED TO WORK, UH, AT THE CITY OF EDMOND.
I STARTED IN 2015, TOOK A LITTLE MEANDER SEATTLE, AND CAME BACK.
DURING THAT TIME, I'VE SEEN A COUNCIL COUNCILS THAT HAVE WORKED VERY EFFECTIVELY TOGETHER.
THAT IS NOT ALWAYS THE EXPERIENCE OF ANY ELECTED BODY.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S RIGHT TO SAY THAT AT SOME POINT THERE MAY BE DISAGREEMENT AMONG COUNCIL.
AND SO FINDING WAYS TO EFFECTIVELY MANAGE THAT, THAT DISAGREEMENT CAN BE HELPFUL TO DEVELOP THOSE RULES AHEAD OF TIME BEFORE THAT DISAGREEMENT STARTS.
UM, AS I GO THROUGH THE PRESENTATION TONIGHT, OBVIOUSLY WOULD ENCOURAGE ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.
UM, BUT MY, MY GOAL IS TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE, UH, INDIVIDUAL SLIDES AND THEN COME BACK TO ASK QUESTIONS JUST TO MAKE SURE WE COULD HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK
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TO SOME, UH, THROUGH ALL THESE THINGS.A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE INTERRELATED.
UM, SO JUST QUICK HIGHLIGHTS ON THE OKLAHOMA OPEN MEETING ACT.
UM, THE VOTE OF EACH CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY MEMBER MUST BE PUBLICLY CAST AND RECORDED.
UM, AND THEN, UM, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC HAVE A RIGHT TO RECORD, UH, WHETHER THAT'S BY AUDIO TAPE VIDEOTAPE, OR EITHER METHOD SET MEETINGS.
BUT THAT RECORDING CANNOT INTERFERE WITH CONDUCT OF MEETINGS.
THEY CAN'T BE DISRUPTIVE IF YOU'RE GOING TO RECORD A, A CITY COUNCIL OF PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY MEETING.
UH, ALSO IN THE OPEN MEETING ACT, UH, AGENDAS MUST BE POSTED, UH, FOR REGULAR MEETINGS AT LEAST 24 HOURS PRIOR TO ANY GIVEN MEETING.
THAT 24 HOURS EXCLUDES SATURDAYS, SUNDAYS, AND HOLIDAYS.
UM, THE, THE, IN THE MEETINGS, YOU CAN ONLY CONSIDER AND CONDUCT BUSINESS AS NOTICED IN THE REQUIRED, UH, UH, THE POSTED AGENDA.
ALSO, UH, ANOTHER PROVISION IN STATE LAW, UM, PROVIDES THAT IF A MEMBER OF A GOVERNING BAR BOARD A GOVERNING BODY OF A MUNICIPALITY ABSTAINS FROM VOTING, HE, SHE SHALL BE DEEMED TO HAVE CAST A NEGATIVE VOTE.
SO IF YOU ABSTAIN, IN ESSENCE, YOU'RE VOTING NOW IS HOW IT'S RECORDED IN THE MINUTES.
AND SO THE PRACTICE GENERALLY HAS BEEN FOR COUNCIL MEMBERS WHO MIGHT WANT TO ABSTAIN BECAUSE OF, UH, AN ISSUE RELATED TO, UH, CONFLICT OF INTEREST OR SOMETHING INSTEAD OF ABSTAINING IN THE ROOM.
THEY'LL LEAVE THE ROOM, UH, FOR THAT PURPOSE.
MOVING TO THE EDMUND CITY CHARTER, UM, WHEN PRESENT, THE MAYOR SHALL PRESIDE AT ALL MEETINGS OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL.
THE MAYOR PRO TEM, IN THE ABSENCE OF, OR DISQUALIFICATION OF THE MAYOR, SHALL SERVE WITH ALL THE POWERS AND DUTIES VESTED IN THE MAYOR.
THE CITY MANAGER SHALL ATTEND ALL MEETINGS OF THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL WITH THE RIGHT TO TAKE PART IN DISCUSSIONS.
BUT HAVING NO VOTE, ONLY THE FIVE MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, FOUR MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, MAYOR, UH, HAVING THE RIGHT TO VOTE, UM, THREE MEMBERS OF THE CO COUNCIL SHALL CONSTITUTE A QUORUM, UM, THE MAYOR BEING COUNTED AS A MEMBER.
AND AN AFFIRMATIVE VOTE OF AT LEAST THREE MEMBERS SHALL BE NECESSARY TO ADOPT OR, UM, PASS AN ORDINANCE OR OTHER MEASURES.
SO IF ONLY THREE MEMBERS ARE PRESENT IN A MEETING, IT'S GOING TO TAKE ALL THREE MEMBERS TO PASS ANYTHING.
UM, FINALLY, THE CITY MANAGER SHALL SUBMIT TO THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL AT EACH MEETING THEREOF AN ORDER OF BUSINESS COVERING HIS OR RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, PUTTING THAT IN NON-LEGAL SPEAK.
UM, THE CITY MANAGER HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF PUTTING TOGETHER THE, UH, COUNCIL AGENDA.
UM, UH, HE, HE DELEGATES THAT FUNCTION ON A REGULAR BASIS, BUT HAS THE RIGHT TO, UH, OVERSEE IT AND DIRECT ITEMS TO BE ADDED OR REMOVED.
UM, SO MOVING ON TO EDMOND MUNICIPAL CODE HIGHLIGHTS.
UM, IN THE ABSENCE OF THE MAYOR, THE MAYOR PROAM SHALL PRESIDE.
UM, IF BOTH OF THEM ARE ABSENT, THEN THE THREE REMAINING COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE TO ELECT A PRESIDING, UH, OFFICER WHO SHALL PRESIDE FOR THAT MEETING.
UM, THE MAYOR SHALL HAVE AN EQUAL VOTE ON ANY QUESTION BEFORE THE COUNCIL.
SO, UM, I WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT SOME, UH, CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF OUR CURRENT CITY COUNCIL.
UH, CITIZENS' COMMENTS POLICY, UM, CITY COUNCIL RECEIVES COMMENTS FROM RESIDENTS AND NON-RESIDENTS, UM, SO THAT THEY MAY SHARE THEIR, UH, VIEWS REGARDING CITY RELATED MATTERS THAT ARE NOT ON THE AGENDA.
CI CITIZENS GENERALLY MUST REGISTER EITHER ONLINE OR IN PERSON BEFORE THE START OF THE MEETING.
A CITIZEN WHO HAS NOT REGISTERED TO SPEAK BEFORE THE START OF THE MEETING, UH, MAY BE RECOGNIZED AT THE DISCRETION OF THE MAYOR IF TIME IS AVAILABLE.
UM, SPEAKER SPEAKERS DURING CITIZEN'S COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO ONE THREE MINUTE SPEAKING OPPORTUNITY.
PROVIDED THAT SAID, TIME FOR ALL SPEAKERS MAY BE AMENDED BY THE MAYOR, UM, FOR COMMENTS MADE DURING ANY PORTION OF THE MEETING, AND I WOULD EMPHASIZE THAT'S ANY PORTION OF THE MEETING, NOT JUST CITY, UH, CITY CITIZEN COMMENTS.
THE MAYOR, UH, MAY LIMIT IMMATERIAL UNNECESSARY OR REDUNDANT COMMENTS AND OR PRESENTATIONS, AND TAKE OTHER ACTIONS IN CONDUCTING THE MEETING TO ORDER.
UM, ALL, UH, SPEAKERS ARE EXPECTED TO CONDUCT THEMSELVES IN A CIVIL, CIVIL, AND RESPECTFUL MANNER.
UM, AND THEN WE HAVE CERTAIN PROVISIONS THAT, UH, CERTAIN TYPE TOPICS THAT ARE, UH, PROHIBITED SUCH AS POLITICAL CAMPAIGNING, COMMERCIAL ADVERTISEMENT, UM, INSULTING, UH, SLANDERS REMARKS, ET CETERA.
SO, MOVING FROM THE BACKGROUND PORTION, UH, OF THIS INTRODUCTION, UM, THE FOLLOWING SLIDES ARE INTENDED AS KIND OF DISCUSSION STARTERS.
AND AGAIN, I'M GONNA RUN THROUGH 'EM QUICKLY AND THEN COME BACK TO THEM ONE BY ONE.
UM, ONE THING I WANT TO EMPHASIZE IS THERE'S NO PERFECT WAY TO RUN A MEETING.
IF YOU LOOKED AT A HUNDRED CITY COUNCILS, YOU WOULD FIND A HUNDRED DIFFERENT WAYS OF RUNNING A MEETING.
THEY MAY ADOPT ROBERT'S RULES, OR THEY MAY ADOPT SOME OTHER FORM OF PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE, BUT THEY'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE NUANCES THAT ARE DEVELOPED OFF THE HISTORY OF THAT SPECIFIC ORGANIZATION.
UM, AND THEN IN COMPARING OURSELVES, UH, WE CERTAINLY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT OTHER CITIES FOR PURPOSES OF COMPARISON IN THE PRESENTATION TODAY.
UM, I'M COMPARING US AGAINST BROKEN ARROW, NORMAN AND STILLWATER.
BASICALLY BECAUSE THEY'RE COUNCIL MANAGER FORMS, UH, OF
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GOVERNMENT, THEY'RE OKLAHOMA CITIES, AND THEY SHARE SIMILAR COMMUNITY CHARACTERISTICS TO OUR OWN.SO, TALKING ABOUT PARLIAMENTARY RULES, SORRY, STAY AT THE MIC.
UM, TALKING ABOUT PARLIAMENTARY RULES AND WHAT THESE RULES CAN MEAN, THEY'RE GENERALLY DESIGNED TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF VARIOUS GROUPS IN A GOVERNING BODY.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT MIGHT BE THE COLLECTIVE WHOLE.
THAT MIGHT BE THE MAJORITY, THAT MIGHT BE THE MINORITY, AND IT MIGHT BE THE INDIVIDUAL.
ALL COUNCIL MEMBERS ARE IN, IN, IN DEVELOPING PARLIAMENTARY RULES.
ANYBODY, ANY GOVERNING BODY CAN HAVE MOMENTS WHERE THE PRESIDING OFFICER MAY MOVE IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE BODY WOULD WANT.
AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S TRULY THE GOVERNING BODY AS A WHOLE THAT HAS THE CAPABILITY TO MAKE DECISIONS.
AND SO, ONE IMPORTANT PART OF, UH, ANY SET OF RULES IS A WAY FOR, UM, AT YOUR, ANY INDIVIDUAL MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL TO BRING US BACK INTO WHAT THE WAY THE, THE MEETING SHOULD BE DONE, UM, TO APPEAL THE DECISION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
AGAIN, FINDING WAYS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE GROUP TO, UM, DIRECT, UM, HOW THE MEETING'S GOING TO BE RUN IN CERTAIN LIMITED SITUATIONS.
UM, ANOTHER THING TO EXA, UH, TO THAT'S IMPORTANT TO EMPHASIZE IS THAT ROBERT'S RULES, UH, IS IS THE EXAMPLE THAT'S THROWN OUT SO MUCH A PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE.
IT CAN BE VERY, VERY COMPLICATED.
UM, I THINK THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF THE BOOK IS 700 PAGES LONG, AND I KNOW WE ALL WANT TO DO OUR HOMEWORK AND LEARN EVERY SINGLE PAGE OF THAT.
UM, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT EVEN ROBERT'S RULES, WHICH IS QUITE COMPLICATED, THERE IS A NORMAL PRACTICE, AND THEN THERE ARE THE EXCEPTION AND LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE MOST OF THOSE RULES ARE.
I WOULD SAY THAT IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES, ROBERT'S RULES, IF THEY WERE IMPLEMENTED TODAY, WOULD BE VERY SIMILAR TO THE WAY WE CONDUCT OUR MEETINGS.
NOW, IT'S IF THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME DISAGREEMENT OR THERE'S NOT ONE ISSUE THAT ONE COUNCIL MEMBER MAY FEEL DIFFERENTLY.
THE OTHER, UM, AGAIN, THERE'S A WAY TO RESOLVE THAT IDENTIFIED IN THE RULES.
UM, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT, UM, APPEALING DECISION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER IS AN IMPORTANT INTEGRAL PART OF ANY SET OF RULES THAT ARE ADOPTED.
UM, NOT BECAUSE THE, UM, WE MAY DISAGREE WITH THE MAYOR OR, OR, UH, DISAGREE WITH THE MAYOR PRO TEM IF THEY WERE PRESIDING.
BUT AGAIN, IT IS UP TO THE BODY TO MAKE DECISIONS ON, UH, CERTAIN MATTERS, AND IT'S ENFORCING THOSE DECISIONS AND ASKING THEM TO BE CALLED FOR A VOTE.
AND THAT'S A METHOD FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.
UM, RULES PROVIDES FOR TYPE OF MOTIONS THAT CAN BE MADE, PRIORITIZATIONS OF MOTIONS AND RULES FOR DEBATE, ALL OF WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT, UM, TYPE OF MOTIONS AND ACTIONS INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO.
I'M, I'M NOT GONNA GO THROUGH THIS ENTIRE LIST, UM, BUT I DO WANT TO, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE TIME YOU'RE GONNA BE SITTING IN THAT MOTION TO APPROVE, UM, MAYBE TO, TO TABLE AN ITEM OR CONTINUE IT, UH, MOVE TO APPEAL A DECISION TO THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
UM, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT CERTAIN MOTIONS, UH, REQUIRE DIFFERENT MAJORITIES.
SO YOUR AVERAGE MOTION MAY REQUIRE A MAJORITY.
SO THREE OF THE FIVE, THERE ARE CERTAIN ONES.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE WERE, UM, MOVING TO SUSPEND THE RULES, WHICH IS WHERE WE'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING, YOU ALWAYS WANNA HAVE THAT CATCHALL JUST IN CASE.
IF, IF WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE ODD, UM, IN ROBERT'S RULES, THAT WOULD BE A TWO THIRDS MAJORITY TO MEET THAT REQUIREMENT.
WE WOULD DO A FOUR FIFTHS MAJORITY OR WHATEVER COUNCIL WOULD DIRECT.
UM, SO THERE'S WAYS THAT YOU CAN CREATE DIFFERENT MAJORITIES FOR DIFFERENT THRESHOLDS.
IF THIS IS REGULAR BUSINESS, OR THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS TRULY SHOULD BE A HIGHER THRESHOLD, UH, TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT ACTION OVER THE DECISION OF THE CHAIR.
UM, I WILL NOTE THAT IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT POINT OF PRIVILEGE AND POINT OF ORDER ARE IMPORTANCE IN ANY SET OF RULES.
SO, POINT OF PRIVILEGE WOULD BE SOMETHING LIKE, HEY, I CAN'T HEAR.
COULD SOMEONE IN THE BACK FIX THIS? UM, IT'S THE, WE NEED TO TAKE A BREAK.
SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE POINT OF ORDER ARE, IT'S A METHOD FOR, I DON'T THINK WE'RE FOLLOWING THE RULES.
AND IF YOU, IF YOU PROVIDE THAT MOTION, THE PRESIDING OFFICER IS THEN CALLED UPON TO MAKE A DECISION, THEY CAN SAY, YES, WE ARE, WE'RE DOING THIS RIGHT? YOU'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE MOVING ON AT THAT TIME.
THEY MAKE THAT DECISION, THAT BECOMES AN APPEALABLE DECISION.
AND THAT, THAT IN ESSENCE, CREATES A PATHWAY FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE GROUP TO, TO DISAGREE WITH THE PRESIDING OFFICER AND MOVE IN DIFFERENT DIRECTION IF THAT'S WHAT THEY WISH.
UM, SO AGAIN, IN IN GENERAL RULES THERE, I, I'VE TRIED TO CREATE OPTIONS HERE.
AND THESE ARE, AGAIN, JUST DISCUSSION STARTERS.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY THESE ARE THE ONLY OPTIONS.
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FREE TO MIX AND MATCH, MOVE IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS.BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO SUGGEST THAT WE'RE, IF, IF COUNSEL DECIDES THAT THEY WANT TO ADOPT, UH, STANDARDS AND RULES, UM, ONE METHODOLOGY OF DOING THAT WOULD BE TO ADOPT A GENERAL SET OF RULES SUCH AS ROBERT'S RULES AND CUT OUT ALL THE PIECES THAT AREN'T NECESSARY FOR US.
SO, IN ESSENCE, ADOPT A GENERAL BODY OF RULES.
AND THEN SAY, EXCEPT FOR SECTION, SECTION, SECTION, SECTION, ANOTHER WAY IS TO, UM, SPECIFICALLY SITE AND CREATE OUR OWN BODY OF, OF RULES, OUR OWN, UH, SET OF RULES.
UM, AND SO THERE'S, UH, POSITIVES, UH, TO BOTH SIDES.
I WILL SAY THAT NORMAN AND STILLWATER, UH, HAVE ADOPTED GENERAL RULES.
ROBERT'S RULES, BROKEN ARROW DOES THIS WITH STURGIS CODE OF PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE.
UM, I, I, I WILL SAY THAT IN HAVING SOME CONVERSATIONS, UH, WITH STAFF, ONE BENEFIT TO HAVING A SMALLER SUBSET OF RULES IS, AGAIN, THAT IT'S NOT 700 PAGES TO LEARN.
THERE'S, THERE'S A VERY SPECIFIC SET OF RULES, WHETHER IT'S FIVE PAGES, WHETHER IT'S 10 PAGES, WHATEVER A CASE MAY BE.
UM, IT'S ALSO LESS BURDENSOME FOR A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND.
UM, YOU MAY HAVE INDIVIDUALS THAT KNOW A LOT ABOUT ROBERT'S RULES BECAUSE OF THEIR H O A INVOLVEMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BUT I WOULDN'T SAY THAT YOUR AVERAGE CITIZEN HAS A GREAT UNDERSTANDING OF ROBERT'S RULES.
SO, AGAIN, HAVING A MORE LIMITED SUBSET MIGHT BE HELPFUL.
UM, TALKING ABOUT DECORUM AND BEHAVIOR DURING MEETINGS, UM, I'LL START WITH THE, THE PUBLIC SECTION OF THIS SLIDE.
UM, THE FIRST PORTION OF THIS, UM, IS JUST AS IT IS TODAY, TAKING THAT FROM OUR, UM, CITIZENS' COMMENTS POLICY.
UM, BUT I WOULD NOTE, YOU KNOW, THE IDEA THAT A, UH, MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC SHOULD NOT BE ENGAGING IN DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOR.
AND I, I, AGAIN, THIS IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO MENTION THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CITY COUNCIL OR THE PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY, BEING ABLE TO MAKE MOTIONS AND PARLIAMENTARY PROCEDURE, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT ARE, UH, AVAILABLE TO MEMBERS OF THE BODY.
SO AS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER, AS THE MAYOR, THE ABILITY TO MAKE MOTIONS, ET CETERA, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE PROVIDED TO A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC.
A MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC IS NOT A MEMBER OF, UH, THE GOVERNING BOARD.
AND SO, AGAIN, THERE'S NOT A RIGHT TO MAKE MOTIONS.
UM, THERE IS HOWEVER, UM, UH, OPPORTUNITIES FOR THEM TO SPEAK WHEN RECOGNIZED.
THAT MIGHT BE OUR PUBLIC, UH, HEARING PORTIONS OF THE MEETING, THAT MIGHT BE CITIZENS' COMMENTS, ET CETERA.
UM, WHEN THEY MAKE THOSE COMMENTS, THEY NEED TO DIRECT THOSE COMMENTS TO THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
UM, AND AGAIN, THE RIGHT TO RECORD, BUT CANNOT DISRUPT THE MEETING.
UM, JUST IN LIEU OF COMING UP WITH SOMETHING ELSE, I'VE, I'VE USED THE SAME LANGUAGE FOR CITY COUNCIL AND STAFF.
AGAIN, UM, UH, CONDUCT BUSINESS IN A CIVIL AND RESPECTFUL MANNER.
I WOULD NOTE THAT MOST, UM, RULES DICTATE THAT, UH, COMMENTS ARE TO BE DIRECTED TO THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
AND AGAIN, SPEAKING, WHEN RECOGNIZED.
NOW, THAT WOULD BE SOMEWHAT AT THE DISCRETION, UNLESS, UNLESS Y'ALL WANNA MOVE INTO DIFFERENT DIRECTION, SOMEWHAT AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER ON HOW RECOGNITION IS OFFERED.
THAT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THE MAYOR AND THE MAYOR SAYS, HEY, COUNCIL MEMBER PETERSON, YOU CAN, YOU CAN TALK, OR, UH, JUST GO AHEAD.
OR, IT MAY BE IN SOME CITIES, UM, THEY PRESS A BUTTON TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK, AND THE MAYOR HAS A, A POPUP OF WHO'S ASKED TO TALK.
UM, AND THEY, THEY GO OFF THAT LIST.
SO THERE'S LOTS OF DIFFERENT METHODS, UM, ON HOW THAT PROCESS WOULD WORK.
UM, AND, AND THIS IS REALLY WHY I WANTED TO GET INTO THE CONVERSATION OF DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATE.
UM, AND SPEAKING WITH THE MAYOR, AND IN MY OWN TIME AS CITY CLERK, I THINK IT'S BEEN VERY VALUABLE THAT MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL HAVE HAD THE ABILITY TO HAVE IN-DEPTH DEEP CONVERSATIONS THAT WERE VERY ORGANIC.
IT WASN'T, UM, IT DIDN'T FEEL STILTED.
IT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT WAS CONFRONTATIONAL.
UM, IT REALLY FELT COLLABORATIVE.
AND I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO TAKE AWAY ANYTHING FROM THAT.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THAT ANYTIME THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PARLIAMENTARY RULES, YOU'RE EITHER GOING TO LEAVE IT ENTIRELY AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER ON HOW DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATE WILL BE CONDUCTED, WHICH HAS SOME POTENTIAL NEGATIVE IMPACTS IN THE SENSE OF IT COULD BE DESPERATE, UH, TREATMENT AMONG INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL MEMBERS.
UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, AT, AT THAT TIME, WE JUST NEED TO WRAP IT UP.
UM, AGAIN, THAT DECISION IS IN THEIR, IN THEIR DISCRETION.
AND SO, AGAIN, SOME SYSTEMS FOR DISCUSSION AND DEBATE THAT HAVE BEEN ADOPTED BY CITIES WILL SAY THAT EACH COUNCIL MEMBER MUST BE RECOGNIZED AT LEAST ONCE, UH, TO SPEAK ON WHATEVER ITEM THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED OR WHATEVER MOTION THAT'S BEING CONSIDERED.
UM, SOME CITIES, NOT THAT I'M RECOMMENDING THIS, BUT SOME CITIES EVEN PROVIDE TIME LIMITS FOR HOW LONG COUNCIL MEMBERS COULD SPEAK.
UM, SO THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU CAN CREATE
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RULES FOR DISCUSSION AND DEBATE.UM, GENERALLY SPEAKING, IF YOU'RE GOING TO ADOPT RULES, AGAIN, MAYOR, RECOGNIZING SOMEONE, UM, CREATING THE RIGHT FOR EACH MEMBER TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM MOTION.
UM, AND I WOULD SAY THAT BROKEN ERROR, NORMAN AND STILLWATER ALL HAVE THESE RULES.
THEY HAVE OPTION TWO, CORRECT? OH, YEAH.
UM, MOVING TO CITIZEN'S COMMENTS.
SO RIGHT NOW WE HAVE WHAT'S ON THE NEXT SLIDE, CITIZENS' COMMENTS, GENERAL COMMENTS.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CURRENTLY WE HAVE NO RULES OR PROCEDURES ON.
SO, UM, THESE ARE CITIZENS' COMMENTS THAT ARE ITEM SPECIFIC.
SO OPTION ONE, UM, DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
NO REQUIREMENTS TO ALLOW CITIZENS TO SPEAK UNLESS IT'S FOR A PUBLIC HEARING ITEM OR SOME OTHER, UH, LAW REQUIRES THEM TO BE RECOGNIZED.
UM, IN ESSENCE, I COULD SAY THAT'S PROBABLY CLOSE TO WHAT WE DO TODAY.
UM, OPTION TWO WANTED TO BRING THIS AS AN OPTION JUST BECAUSE BROKEN ARROW, NORMAN, AND STILLWATER ALL REQUIRE THIS.
UM, THEY DO REQUIRE SIGNUP, UH, AHEAD OF THE MEETING.
THEY DO PROVIDE A TIME LIMIT, JUST LIKE WE DO FOR OUR GENERAL COMMENTS.
THE, THE BENEFIT THAT I, I HEARD FROM TALKING TO UNDER CITY CLERKS WAS INDIVIDUALS KNEW THAT THEY WERE GONNA GET RECOGNIZED.
IT WASN'T A MATTER OF, WELL, YOU KNOW, I, I MIGHT SHOW UP AND I MIGHT BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK ON THIS.
I KNOW I'M GOING TO GET, UH, TO BE ALLOWED TO SPEAK BECAUSE I'VE SIGNED UP.
AND THAT'S, UH, THAT'S POLICY.
I, I WOULD ALSO SAY FROM OTHER, UM, TALKING TO OTHER CITY CLERKS, THIS IS NOT A TIME SAVING MEASURE.
UM, IF, IF THIS IS SOMETHING THAT EVERYONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT, YOU'RE GONNA GET 30 PEOPLE THAT WANT TO GET UP HERE AND THEY'RE GONNA ALL USE THEIR THREE MINUTES, AND THAT'S GONNA TAKE 90 MINUTES JUST AS MUCH AS MAYBE ONE PERSON SUMMARIZING IT.
SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY, THIS IS BETTER AND MORE EFFICIENT, IT'S MORE A MATTER OF EQUAL TREATMENT.
UM, AND AGAIN, NOT SUGGESTING THAT WE SHOULD DO ONE OR THE OTHER.
AGAIN, THERE ARE OTHER OPTIONS, MIX AND MATCH.
BUT I WOULD NOTE, UM, IN TALKING ABOUT ITEM SPECIFIC CITIZEN COMMENTS, UM, OTHER CITIES THAT HAVE ADDRESSED THIS THIS WAY HAVE HAD, YOU KNOW, YOUR AVERAGE CITIZEN GET UP, GETS UP, GETS THIS AMOUNT OF TIME, YOUR APPLICANT MIGHT GET A LONGER AMOUNT OF TIME.
THEY'RE ALSO ADDRESS ISSUES LIKE, WHO HAS ACCESS TO AV EQUIPMENT FOR ITEM SPECIFIC RULES.
ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS ARE THINGS WE WOULD NEED TO PARSE OUT IF THIS IS SOMETHING WE WANT TO, WE WANT TO ADDRESS.
UM, MOVING TO CITIZENS COMMENTS GENERAL, WHICH IS WHAT WE DO RIGHT NOW, UM, I, I DID THINK IT NOTEWORTHY THAT STILLWATER DOES NOT HAVE GENERAL CITIZENS COMMENTS.
THEY ONLY HAVE ITEM SPECIFIC CITIZEN COMMENTS.
UM, AGAIN, VERY SIMILAR PROCESS.
BROKEN ARROW ON NORMAN TO WHAT OUR CURRENT PROCESS IS REQUIRING.
SIGN UP BEFORE THE MEETING AND SETTING A THREE MINUTE TIME LIMIT UNLESS THAT TIME LIMIT IS EXTENDED BY MOTION ON THAT.
ON THAT LAST ONE, COREY? YEAH, SO THIS PREDATES ME.
I'VE HAD PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT IT, I JUST DON'T KNOW THE NUANCES OF IT.
UM, AND THEN SOME TIME AGO EVAN HAD LIKE, NEW BUSINESS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
WHAT, WHAT WERE THE SORT OF PURPOSES OF NEW BUSINESS OR, OR WHAT, WHAT FIT IN WHAT BUCKET OR LIKE, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT HAVE WE DONE SORT OF HISTORICALLY AROUND THAT? I'M STRUGGLING TO COME UP WITH AN EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT WAS OFFERED IN NEW BUSINESS IN MY TIME WITH THE CITY PREVIOUSLY.
I, I CAN'T THINK OF A SPECIFIC ITEM THAT WAS ACTUALLY OFFERED IN NEW BUSINESS.
AGAIN, IN, IN HAVING SOME OF THESE SAME CONVERSATIONS WITH CITIZENS, I THINK THERE WAS A, A, A, AN IDEA THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC COULD SUGGEST NEW BUSINESS.
AND I'VE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THAT TO BE THE CASE, THAT IT WAS ALWAYS UP TO THE CITY COUNCIL TO BE ABLE TO OFFER NEW BUSINESS.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF MR. MURDOCH REMEMBERS BETTER THAN I, WELL, SOMETIMES IF WE HAD NEW BUSINESS ON THE AGENDA, THE MAYOR MIGHT ASK, IS THERE ANY NEW BUSINESS? WE NORMALLY WOULD ASK THE MEMBERS OF THE COUNCIL THAT FIRST, AND THEN THERE MIGHT BE SOMEONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD APPROACH AND SAY, UH, UH, I HAVE AN ITEM FOR NEW BUSINESS.
I'D LIKE FOR YOU ALL TO TALK ABOUT A PARTICULAR ITEM.
OR THEY MIGHT WANT TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT AN UPCOMING PUBLIC EVENT.
UH, AND THEN THE COUNCIL, IF THAT NEEDED TO BE DISCUSSED AT AN AGENDA AT A LATER POINT IN TIME, THEN IT COULD BE PUT ON A FUTURE AGENDA.
UM, BUT WE HAVE NOT TAKEN ACTION ON NEW BUSINESS ITEMS, UM, THAT I RECALL.
UM, 'CAUSE WE, WE, IF THERE NEEDED TO BE ACTION TAKEN, WE'D PUT 'EM ON A FUTURE AGENDA.
AND I, SO BASICALLY, SO AT, 'CAUSE I KNOW AT THE END OF OUR CURRENT MEETINGS, WE'LL HAVE COUNCILOR COMMENTS.
I FORGET EXACTLY WHAT IT'S CALLED.
AND THAT'S WHERE I MIGHT SAY, OH, NEXT WEEK MM-HMM.
[00:25:01]
TO DISCUSS THIS ISSUE OR SHOW UP HERE.'CAUSE WE CAN'T TAKE ACTION IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, ON ANYTHING THAT'S NOT PREVIOUSLY NOTED AND PUBLISHED.
SO THE IDEA IS TO MAKE SOME SORT OF ANNOUNCEMENT OR POINT TO SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE DISCUSSED IN THE FUTURE, BUT NOT SUBSEQUENT CONVERSATION HAPPENING.
IS THAT KIND OF HOW I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, IN MY MIND, TRYING TO, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CITIZEN COMMENTS OR NEW BUSINESS, OR IF THEY'RE THE SAME.
CAN I SPEAK TO THAT A LITTLE BIT? UM, JUST WHAT WE FOUND WAS THAT THERE WAS A LOT OF CONFUSION THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THOUGHT THAT THEY COULD BRING UP NEW BUSINESS.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF AT SOME POINT, MAYBE LIKE YOU SAID, UM, MR. MURDOCH, THAT SOMEBODY WOULD BE RECOGNIZED AND THEN NOW THEY, THE MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THOUGHT THAT'S A SPACE FOR THEM TO BE BRING UP NEW BUSINESS.
MY UNDERSTANDING OF NEW BUSINESS WAS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS NOT KNOWN IN TIME TO PUT IT ON AN AGENDA, BUT IT IS BUSINESS.
AND SO WHAT WE FOUND IS THAT IF IT CAN'T BE ON THE AGENDA, IT'LL JUST HAVE TO EITHER BE ON A SPECIAL MEETING THEN WHEN THERE IS PUBLISHED NOTICE.
AND SO IT JUST DIDN'T, IT JUST SEEMED TO BE PROVIDING MORE CONFUSION THAN ASSISTANCE, AND THAT'S WHY IT WAS TAKEN OFF.
IS THAT A REASONABLE SUMMARY? YEAH, I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT LIKE WHAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF NEW BUSINESS THAT I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE STRUGGLED WITH, IS COMING UP WITH A REASON WHY THE COUNCIL WOULD WANT TO BRING UP NEW BUSINESS.
UM, BUT I THINK IT'S, IT'S INTENDED TO BE, WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THIS REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT ITEM IN TIME TO PUBLISH IT 24 HOURS, EXCLUDING SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS, AND PUT IT ON THE AGENDA.
AND SO, BUT WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION.
AND I THINK WHAT WE FELT LIKE WAS THAT IT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO HAVE NEW BUSINESS, BECAUSE IF WE NEEDED TO DO THAT, WE COULD JUST PUBLISH AND HAVE A SPECIAL MEETING, OR MOST OF THE TIME IT CAN WAIT.
AND SO, AND WE HAD MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THINKING THEY COULD BRING UP NEW ITEMS OF BUSINESS AND NEW BUSINESS.
SO THE, SO THE CATCHALL WOULD BE, IF I'M A CITIZEN, I COULD ALWAYS SIGN UP FOR CITIZEN COMP, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
IF IT'S, I'M A MEMBER OF COUNSELOR, I'M A COUNSELOR, I'M A, I'M A CITY COUNSELOR, I COULD ALWAYS, AT THE END OF MEETING SORT OF CATCHALL TALK ABOUT ANYTHING HAPPENING IN THE CITY AS SOMETHING I WANT TO POINT TO, AND THAT'S MORE APPROPRIATE.
AND THEN, UM, BUT AS FAR AS A BUSINESS ITEM, IF ANYTHING SUBSTANCE THAT HAPPENED, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE AN AGENDA ITEM IN ADVANCE.
AND, AND WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST IS THAT, UH, THE CITY MANAGER OR THE CITY ATTORNEY, IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENED WOULD, UH, RAISE THEIR HAND AND SAY, WE NEED TO HAVE A SPECIAL MEETING AT, AND WE WOULD COORDINATE DATES AND HAVE THAT SPECIAL MEETING TO MEET THAT NEED.
UH, I THINK WE HAD ONE WHEN WE HAD THE ICE STORM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR, TO, UM, AUTHORIZE THE, THE REMOVAL OF THE LIMBS.
SO WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE, UH, AND IT'S NORMALLY THE, THESE TWO POSITIONS RIGHT HERE WOULD RAISE THEIR HAND AND SAY, THIS CAN'T WAIT FOR TWO WEEKS BEFORE WE MEET.
WE MEET NOW IN A WAY THAT A CITIZEN COULD BE HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD IF THEY MADE A COMMENT.
SO SAY SOMEBODY FOR EXAMPLE SAID, HEY, THERE'S THIS UTILITY WORK HAPPENING IN MY FRONT YARD.
AND THEY WANNA BRING THAT UP DURING A CITIZEN COMMENT.
WE AS A CITY COUNSELOR COULD SAY, UM, MR. CITY MANAGER, COULD YOU LOOK INTO THAT AND PROVIDE A REPORT TO MR. AND MRS. SO-AND-SO, UM, OR WE COULD DISCUSS THAT IN THE FUTURE, BUT, SO WE CAN ALWAYS HEAR SOMETHING BASICALLY REFLECT IT AND SAY, WE WOULD ASK FOR A FOLLOW-UP.
WE'RE JUST NOT GONNA DISCUSS THE MATTER TO RESOLUTION AT THAT POINT.
IS THAT, DO I UNDERSTAND HOW THAT WORKS? I THINK THAT IS HOW IT WORKS.
UM, THE OKLAHOMA OPEN MEETING LAW DOES DEFINE THE TERM NEW BUSINESS AS ANY MATTER NOT KNOWN ABOUT, OR, WHICH COULD NOT HAVE BEEN REASONABLY FORESEEN PRIOR TO THE TIME OF THE POSTING OF THE AGENDA.
SO, UM, I DON'T THINK THAT THE
UM, BUT I THINK THE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ANNOUNCEMENTS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CITIZEN WANTING TO ADDRESS THE COUNCIL AND ASKING ABOUT A PARTICULAR ISSUE, SUCH AS JUST YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT CAN BE EFFECTIVELY HANDLED THROUGH OUR CITIZEN'S COMMENTS SECTION THAT WE'VE, THAT WE'VE USED.
SO, UM, NEW BUSINESS I ALWAYS THOUGHT ABOUT WAS THAT STAFF NEEDED TO BRING SOMETHING UP, UM, AND WANTED THE COUNCIL TO ACTUALLY ACT UPON IT.
WE, THE THRESHOLD WOULD BE PRETTY HIGH.
IT WOULD'VE TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE, WE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT IT WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE HOURS.
AND IT'S, IT'S ALMOST LIKE AN EMERGENCY.
AND SO WE NEED SOME DIRECTION IN THAT REGARD, BUT WE HAVEN'T FOUND THAT TO BE THE CASE.
WE COULD ALWAYS CALL AN EMERGENCY MEETING MM-HMM.
[00:30:01]
SO WE JUST DID FIND THAT, UH, NEW BUSINESS WAS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD, WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS NECESSARY, UM, FOR OUR AGENDAS AND REPLACED, FELT IT WAS BETTER REPLACED WITH A CITIZEN'S COMMENTS SECTION.CITIZENS' COMMENTS IN A GENERAL TERM AND IN THE CITIZEN'S COMMENTS WITH REGARD TO A SPECIFIC ITEM ON THE AGENDA, WHICH IS OFTEN DONATED AS A PUBLIC HEARING.
UM, NEXT UP, UM, THE PROCESS FOR COUNSEL TO ADD AGENDA ITEMS. UM, SO JUST RUNNING THROUGH SOME IDEAS FOR OPTIONS HERE.
WE DON'T HAVE NECESSARILY A WRITTEN POLICY ON THIS AT THE MOMENT.
UM, ONE OPTION WOULD BE ANY COUNCIL MEMBER ABLE TO ADD, UH, ANY ITEM TO A REGULAR MEETING, UH, AGENDA WITH SUFFICIENT NOTICE TO STAFF.
ANOTHER OPTION MIGHT BE THAT COUNCIL MEMBER, UH, WOULD BE ABLE TO ADD AN ITEM TO A FUTURE AGENDA BY MAKING A MOTION, RECEIVING A SECOND, AND RECEIVING SUFFICIENT VOTES, UH, FOR APPROVAL IN A REGULAR MEETING.
WE MIGHT HAVE TO ADD A NEW SECTION OF THE AGENDA FOR THAT DIRECTION FOR FUTURE MEETINGS, ET CETERA.
UM, AND THIS IS KIND OF BASED OFF THE NORMAN RULE WOULD BE FOR TWO COUNCIL MEMBERS BEING ABLE TO ADD CERTAIN AGENDA ITEMS WITH SUFFICIENT NOTICE TO STAFF.
UH, NORMAN USES A RULE WHERE THREE OF NINE COUNCIL MEMBERS CAN ADD ANY POLICY OR BUDGET AGENDA ITEMS, UM, TO AN AGENDA.
AND SO, AGAIN, JUST SOME IDEAS THERE.
AGAIN, MIX AND MATCH OTHER IDEAS.
UM, WHEN IT COMES TO THE AGENDA FORMAT, UM, THIS IS THE CURRENT, UH, LAYOUT THAT WE USE.
UM, THERE'S BEEN SOME CONVERSATION ABOUT POTENTIALLY, UM, AGAIN, TRYING TO MOVE THROUGH, UM, WE'LL, WE'LL TALK ABOUT HERE IN A SECOND.
IN GENERAL, CONSENT, MOVING THROUGH CONSENT ITEMS QUICKER, UM, AND MAYBE POTENTIALLY MOVING PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY ITEMS BEFORE THE CONSENT DISCUSSION ITEMS OF CITY COUNCIL.
AND AGAIN, IF WE WERE MAKING CHANGES TO CITIZENS' COMMENTS, MAYBE WE WOULD WANT TO THINK ABOUT MOVING CITIZENS' COMMENTS.
UM, DIFFERENT CITIES DO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS ON ALL OF THESE ITEMS. UM, SO THERE'S REALLY NO, SOME MAKE LOGICAL SENSE, BUT THERE'S NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT FOR THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS.
UM, SO IT'S WHATEVER CITY COUNCIL WOULD LIKE TO DIRECT.
UM, WHEN IT COMES TO, UM, GENERAL CONSENT, UH, WHICH IS A BIG TOPIC FOR TODAY, UM, AGAIN, I THINK WE'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP RULES WHERE, UH, FOR THE SAKE OF EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS.
UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I APPRECIATE ABOUT OUR CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE 'EM AT FIVE 30, THAT THEY'RE DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO GET OFF WORK AND GET HERE AND LISTEN IN IF THEY WOULD LIKE NOT, SOME CITY COUNCILS MEET IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY.
UM, AND I, I WOULD THINK THAT WOULD BE DIFFICULT FOR YOUR AVERAGE COUNCIL, UH, YOUR AVERAGE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC TO BE ABLE TO, TO BE THERE.
I THINK IT'S THE SAME VALUE OF IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A FIVE HOUR MEETING, IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT FOR THE AVERAGE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC TO SIT THERE AND WAIT FOR THAT AGENDA ITEM.
AND SO, AGAIN, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TRANSPARENT, ACCESSIBLE, THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE NOT HIDING THINGS, WE'RE, WE'RE TRYING TO CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS IN AN EFFECTIVE MANNER, WHILE ALSO JUST BEING EFFICIENT
UM, SO I, I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT THIS IS TIED TO, IF WE'RE GONNA BE DOING ITEMS UNDER GENERAL CONSENT, UM, MAKING SURE THAT OUR EXPLANATIONS THAT ARE IN THE PACKET ARE EFFECTIVE, THAT, THAT THE INFORMATION IS THERE, AND IF WE'RE GONNA BE PUTTING IT IN CONSENT, THAT I'M, AS THE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC, I CAN READ THIS AND I CAN UNDERSTAND IT, AND I KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA HELP ME IDENTIFY WHETHER I SHOULD CONTACT MY COUNCIL MEMBER AND ASK FOR THIS TO BE PULLED FROM CONSENT.
SO I THINK WE REALLY HAVE TO MARRY THE IDEA OF STRONGER, MORE GENERAL CONSENT ITEMS WITH THE IDEA OF MAKING SURE THAT THESE EXPLANATIONS IN THE PACKET ARE EFFECTIVE.
UM, AND AGAIN, THINKING ABOUT RULES, THINKING ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, AGAIN, I, WE WILL TALK HERE IN A SECOND ABOUT MAYBE PUTTING A DOLLAR VALUE TO THESE, BUT THERE'S NO GENERAL RULE OUT THERE.
I ASKED, UH, SEVERAL CITY CLERKS WHAT THE, WHAT THEIR RULES WERE.
AND, UH, ONE CITY ELABORATED THAT, UH, ONE OF THEIR, UH, THAT A $30 MILLION PRICE TAG ITEM WAS IN CONSENT.
I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO DO.
UM, I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS PARTICULARLY NOTEWORTHY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE A GENERAL CONSENT ITEM.
AND SOME OF THIS IS A SUBJECTIVE THING.
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE IT SHOULD BE IN CONSENT? UM, AND SOME OF THIS IS MORE SETTING DEFINED STANDARDS.
UM, AND THEN FINALLY, WHEN WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THESE RULES, I THINK WE WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE, UM, PROVIDED NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC, UM, ON HOW THEY COULD CONTACT THEIR COUNCIL MEMBER TO HAVE AN ITEM REMOVED, UH, FROM THE CONSENT.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE'S THIS PLANNING ITEM, OR EXCUSE ME, APPROVAL OF FINAL PLAT OR, OR MAYBE, UH, APPROVAL OF RESOLUTION THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.
I KNOW BY LOOKING ON OUR AGENDA OR ON OUR AGENDA PACKET SOMEWHERE THAT'S EASY TO SEE THAT I CAN CONTACT THIS COUNCIL MEMBER AND REQUEST
[00:35:01]
THAT THEY COULD PULL THAT FOR ME.I, AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION OF MOST CITIES WOULD NOT ALLOW THE MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC TO PULL SOMETHING FROM CONSENT.
IT WOULD BE ONLY THE BO UH, THE MEMBERS OF THE BODY.
AND SO YOU WANT TO HAVE AN EFFECTIVE WAY WHERE SOMEONE WHO MIGHT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT HAS THE KNOWLEDGE AND AWARENESS OF HOW TO CONTACT YOU TO PULL THAT FROM CONSENT.
SO, LOOKING AT THE SUBJECTIVE STANDARDS, UH, AGAIN, JUST EXAMPLES HERE, UM, ONE OF THE CITIES SAID, WELL, WE DON'T PUT CONTROVERSIAL ITEMS ON, UH, CONSENT OR IT'S APPROPRIATE AS A CONSENT ITEM.
WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? UM, I THINK WE CAN THINK ABOUT THAT.
I THINK THAT THIRD, $30 MILLION PLUS MIGHT DINGING THE RADAR AS MAYBE SOMETHING THAT'S NOT.
UM, BUT IT'S, IT'S HARD TO DEFINE THESE THINGS.
IT, UM, IF, IF YOU USE THESE SUBJECTIVE STANDARDS, SOME OPTIONS FOR DEFINED STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT A PUBLIC HEARING REQUIRED BY LAW POLICY, ET CETERA.
DISCUSSION IS NOT NECESSARY TO PROVIDE DIRECTION.
NO COUNCIL MEMBER IS REQUESTED DISCUSSION ITEM, NO COUNCIL MEMBER HAS REQUESTED A SEPARATE VOTE, MAYBE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND NEED TO STEP OUT.
UM, NO CONFLICTING RECOMMENDATIONS EXIST.
MAYBE DIFFERENT BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS HAVE SAID DIFFERENT THINGS.
UM, MAYBE PUTTING A DOLLAR VALUE, IT INVOLVES AN EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS LESS THAN X, UM, OR A PRESENTATION IS NOT NECESSARY TO EXPLAIN THE ITEM.
SO THERE'S DIFFERENT METHODOLOGIES THAT WE COME WITH, COME UP WITH TO SET WHAT OUR GENERAL CONSENT ITEMS COULD BE.
AND AGAIN, JUST TALKING TO OTHER CITIES ABOUT THINGS THEY'VE SET IN THEIR POLICY REQUIRING MULTIPLE READINGS OR MEETINGS FOR AN ITEM.
UM, SO CURRENTLY WE HAVE NO REQUIREMENTS FOR THIS OTHER THAN, UH, THE FACT THAT WE ARE REQUIRED TO HOLD A BUDGET HEARING, AND THEN WE ARE REQUIRED TO LATER HAVE AN OPTION OF THAT BUDGET.
UM, OTHER CITIES HAVE REQUIREMENTS ON THIS.
AND SO WATER ALL REQUIRE TWO READINGS FOR APPROVAL OF ANY ORDINANCE OTHER THAN FOR PLANNING ORDINANCES.
UM, SO THEY DO A FIRST READING, UH, ON CONSENT NOTICE TO THE PUBLIC THAT THIS IS GONNA BE CONSIDERED.
AND THEN AT THEIR SECOND MEETING, THEY MIGHT HAVE THAT.
AND AGAIN, JUST AN OPTION, UM, TO GIVE MORE PUBLIC NOTICE, UH, TO MEMBERS OF THE ADMIN COMMUNITY.
UM, ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT WAS THROWN OUT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, COULD YOU REQUIRE THAT ITEMS RAISING FEES MIGHT BE CONSIDERED AT LEAST TWO MEETINGS.
UM, THERE'S LOTS OF OPTIONS AND I THINK YOU WOULD ALWAYS WANT TO RETAIN SOME CONTROL OF IT WITH A FOUR FIST VOTE.
WE COULD SKIP THIS IF IT'S AN EMERGENCY OR SOMETHING.
SO I, I THINK YOU'D WANT TO HAVE A PATHWAY FOR IMMEDIATE APPROVAL IF NECESSARY.
UM, BUT THIS MIGHT BE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO CONSIDER, UM, REQUIRING ITEMS TO BE READ IN FULL.
UM, CURRENT PRACTICE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
UM, SOME CITIES READ EVERY WORD OF EVERY ITEM.
SOME CITIES, UM, THEY'LL JUST GO BY AGENDA ITEMS. AND SO, AGAIN, DO WE WANT TO SET THIS IN RULES, AGAIN, FOR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND AUDIENCE TO BE ABLE TO HEAR THESE THINGS? DO WE WANNA LEAVE IT AT DISCRETION, SET A MINIMUM STANDARD, ET CETERA.
UM, I AM GONNA GO BACK NOW AND START WORKING THROUGH THESE.
UM, AND I'LL JUST START WITH GENERAL RULES AS FAR AS BUILDING UP THIS PROCESS FROM A LIMITED TO A LIMITED SET OF RULES, OR MAYBE ADOPTING A LARGER SET OF RULES SUCH AS ROBERT'S RULES AND THEN WINNOWING THEM DOWN.
UM, AGAIN, WE, WE WANTED TO PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR COUNSEL TO DISCUSS AND HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK, AND WE CAN BUILD SOMETHING IF, IF APPROPRIATE, IF, IF WE WANT TO TAKE ANY ACTION WITH THAT.
UM, I'M GLAD WE'RE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION NOW.
UH, I CAN START OFF AND IF, IF YOU ALSO DESIRE, UM, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE DO ESTABLISH SOME OF RULES, UH, AS WE GO FORWARD AS A COUNCIL, AS OUR, AS OUR COMMUNITY CONTINUES TO GROW, THAT WE ESTABLISH A BASELINE, OR AS WE'VE SAID BEFORE, OUR GUARDRAILS TO HELP THE BODY UNDERSTAND THEIR RIGHTS.
AND THEN ALSO THE, THE CITIZENS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT WE ARE DOING UP HERE IN COMMUNICATING TO THEM EFFECTIVELY.
HAVING WORKED UNDER BOTH, UH, ROBERT RULES AND, UH, NO RULES.
BASICALLY, I LIKE THE IDEA OF US BUILDING THE RULES, UM, THAT WE ESTABLISH.
AND WE CAN GO OVER TO ROBERT RULES AND PULL WHATEVER WE WANT.
WE CAN PULL THE ITEMS THAT WE WANT AND BUILD OUR SET OF RULES UP HERE.
BUT THAT'S, UM, INSTEAD OF DISSECTING ROBERT RULES AND TRYING TO FULLY UNDERSTANDING ROBERT RULES FIRST AND THEN DISSECTING, 'CAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS ADD, BUT, OKAY.
UM, I THINK SOMETHING I, I AGREE WITH YOU.
[00:40:01]
WE NEED SOMETHING IN WRITING.I MEAN, AGAIN, OUR COMMUNITY HAS GROWN A LOT, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LESS FORMAL WAS FINE.
UM, I THINK SOME CONSISTENCY AND FORMALITY MAKES SENSE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED THE 700 PAGES OF ROBERT'S RULES OF ORDER.
A LOT OF THAT WON'T EVEN APPLY.
AND SO I, I LIKE THE IDEA OF SETTING SOME RULES, SIMPLE, CLEAR, STRAIGHTFORWARD, UM, NOT OVERLY COMPLICATED RULES THAT WE CAN PROMULGATE.
I THINK WE NEED TO, UM, MAINTAIN A LEVEL OF ORDER AND, UM, TO MAKE OUR MEETINGS EFFICIENT.
AND SO, UM, YEAH, WE DON'T NEED THE 700 PAGE BOOK, BUT, UM, I, I, I THINK THAT RULES NEED TO BE SPECIFIC SO THAT THERE IS NO QUESTION.
AND IF PEOPLE SAY, CAN I DO THIS OR SAY THIS OR DO THIS, WE CAN SAY THE RULES STATE.
UM, IT, IT MAKES FOR A MORE EFFICIENT MEETING.
AND ESPECIALLY LIKE, UM, COUNCILWOMAN MUG SAID, AS MUCH AS OUR CITY IS GROWING, THAT THESE MEETINGS CAN ONLY GET BIGGER AND BIGGER AND BIGGER.
SO IN ORDER TO KEEP ORDER AND HAVE THE MEETINGS EFFICIENT, I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT.
I MEAN, BIG PICTURE FIRST, COREY, THANK YOU.
UH, I THINK WE'RE BLESSED AS A CITY TO HAVE SOMEBODY WHO IS SO PASSIONATE AND GETS INTO THE DETAILS OF IT.
I DON'T THINK, UH, MANY CITIES IN OKLAHOMA CAN CLAIM TO A CLERK LIKE YOURSELF SO APPRECIATE.
THERE'S OBVIOUSLY BEEN A LOT OF LEGWORK THAT'S GONE INTO IT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I ARC TOWARDS HOW CAN WE PROVIDE SORT OF THE MOST FREEDOM AND ACCESS TO CITIZENS.
I THINK WHEN THEY DON'T FEEL HEARD AND THEN UNDERSTOOD, THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT STEAM HAS TO GO SOMEWHERE.
AND A LOT OF IT I TRY TO RECOGNIZE AS THE ANXIETY OF THE MOMENT.
THEY SAW A SIGN, THEY HEARD SOMETHING, THEY GOT A LETTER, THEY'RE NOT USED TO PUBLIC SPEAKING, AND THEN THEY'RE REACTING.
AND I ALWAYS JOKE, IF SOMEONE TOLD ME I HAD TO FILL OUT SPREADSHEETS IN ORDER TO DO SOMETHING AROUND MY PROPERTY TO, I WOULD JUST CRY.
SO I KNOW PUBLIC SPEAKING IS ANXIETY RIDDEN FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
UM, I THINK AS WE ADOPT, UH, DIFFERENT RULES, IF WE KEEP AN EYE TOWARDS THAT, OF TRYING TO DEMYSTIFY SORT OF ANY ACRONYMS OR ANY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE, YOU HAVE TO HAVE GUARDRAILS.
BUT AS MUCH AS WE CAN USE PLAIN ENGLISH
AND THEN ALSO I WOULD, I WOULD BE OPEN TO MAYBE ONCE A YEAR, UH, MY, MY NERD BRAIN WOULD ATTEND SOMETHING THAT'S OPEN TO CITIZENS THAT SOMEONE LIKE YOURSELF MIGHT LEAD THAT JUST DOES A MOCK SORT OF CITY COUNCIL.
MAYBE WE GO THROUGH SOME MOCK AGENDA ITEMS. MAYBE COULD INVOLVE SOME SCOUTS OR SOME KIDS OR CO LIKE, HOWEVER IT IS SO THAT PEOPLE FEEL ON SOME MOCK ISSUE THAT THEY CAN WALK THROUGH THAT.
BUT IT'S HARD TO BALANCE THAT BECAUSE, I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE JUST ANXIOUS, RIGHT? THEY COME HERE, IT'S HARD FOR, IT'S HARD TO BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING.
THEY KNOW THEY HAVE A LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME.
IT'S USUALLY AROUND THEIR BIGGEST ASSET OR THEIR HOME OR THE THING THAT THEY CARE ABOUT MOST, WHICH IS THEIR COMMUNITY.
I THINK WE CAN BE TO SIMPLIFY AND DEMYSTIFY, I THINK WOULD SERVE US WELL.
UM, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER COMMENTS, I'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM.
SO AGAIN, IN SPEAKING ABOUT DECORUM BEHAVIOR, I, THIS IS JUST KIND OF THE GENERAL COMMENTS.
UH, THERE NO OTHER COMMENTS SPECIFICALLY ON THIS.
I'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT ONE WITH SOME OPTIONS.
UH, SO FOR DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATES, UM, AGAIN, SORRY, COREY, I'M SORRY.
SO ON THE LAST SLIDE, DECORUM BEHAVIOR DURING MEETINGS.
I THINK THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE AND I AGREE WITH IT.
WHAT I WONDER IS, IS IT CLEAR WHAT IF, IF THESE, I GUESS, RULES ARE VIOLATED, WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OKAY.
AND HOW THAT WOULD BE ENFORCED.
WE CAN MAKE SURE WE TOUCH ON THAT.
'CAUSE WE CAN SAY THAT THAT'S THE RULE, BUT THEN IF PEOPLE VIOLATE IT AND NOTHING HAPPENS, THEN WHY DO WE HAVE THE RULE? OKAY.
FOR, UH, DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATE, UM, AGAIN, SOME OPTIONS OF JUST LEAVING IT AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDING OFFICER.
DO WE WANT TO ESTABLISH RULES RIGHTS, UH, TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK EACH ONCE AT LEAST ON CERTAIN ITEMS, UH, OR MOTIONS? UM, AGAIN, WOULD OPEN THE FLOOR TO HEAR YOUR FEEDBACK.
I THINK IT WORKS WELL AT THE DISCRETION OF THE LEADER OF THE GROUP.
UM, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S WORKED WELL.
I MEAN, MY DEFAULT IS AGAIN, IF, I MEAN PEOPLE CAN BE ABUSIVE IN THEIR USE OF A MICROPHONE AND USE IT AS A BULLY OR, OR JUST HOG IT ALL.
BUT I THINK IF PEOPLE DON'T AT LEAST HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD AND UNDERSTOOD, THEY'LL, THAT'S WHERE THAT FRICTION OR THAT STEAM BEGINS TO ARISE.
[00:45:01]
SO I'D SAY LIKE A DEFAULT BEING THAT EVERY COUNSELOR COULD SPEAK ON THAT ISSUE.NOW, THE CHARTER DOES SAY THAT THE MAYOR IS THE PRESIDING OFFICER, WHICH IS A POWER ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY OF THAT PERSON WHO IS ELECTED MAYOR.
SO I THINK THEY COULD MOVE TO END DISCUSSION, CLOSED DISCUSSION TABLE.
I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT AMOUNT AN EXPERT ON IT.
UM, BUT OF COURSE THAT WOULD BE SUBJECT TO AN APPEAL OF 'CAUSE IF THERE WAS THREE OF US, IF THERE WERE THREE OTHER THAT SAID, NO, WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS THIS, OR NO, WE DO NEED TO VOTE ON THIS, OR NO, WE DO NEED TO DISCUSS IT FURTHER, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO SOME APPEAL.
BUT, UM, I MEAN, THAT'S INHERENT, I THINK IN THE POWERS GIVEN THE CHARTER FOR THE MAYOR TO SIT HIM OR HER IN A POSITION WHERE THEY CAN BE THAT ADJUDICATOR REFEREE OF THAT SORT OF THE CORPSMAN AND THING.
SO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT DISCUSSIONS AND DEBATE OR THE DECORUM THING? UH, DISCUSSIONS.
EXCUSE YOU REAL QUICK, IF Y'ALL WOULD TAKE YOUR MICROPHONES AND MAKE SURE THEY'RE POINT SO WE CAN HEAR YOU, IF THAT WOULD BE GREAT.
I MEAN, PROBABLY, I MEAN, DEFINITELY FOR DISCUSSION DEBATE.
I MEAN, MY DEFAULT WOULD SAY, OKAY, LET'S HAVE COUNCIL MEMBERS BE ABLE TO AT LEAST SPEAK TO EACH ITEM.
UM, IF THE PRESIDING OFFICER FELT LIKE, OKAY, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO MOVE ON, OR WE'VE HEARD FROM EVERYBODY, I THINK THAT'S HER, HE OR SHE'S RIGHT SUBJECT TO, IF THERE WERE A MAJORITY, THREE OTHERS THAT SAID, HEY, NO, WE, WE NEED TO HEAR MORE, DISCUSS FURTHER.
IF THAT, IF THAT'S HOW I WOULD, THAT'S HOW I WOULD THINK OF IT.
UM, BECAUSE ULTIMATELY YOU NEED THREE VOTES TO DO ANYTHING.
SO IF YOU HAVE THREE PEOPLE SAYING, HEY, WE WANT TO PIVOT IN THIS DIRECTION OR NOT, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE MY HEAD'S AT ON THAT ONE.
MAYOR, YOU BEEN, YOU'VE BEEN IN THE, IN THE MIDDLE OF HAVING TO PRESIDING OFFICER WHAT FEELS LIKE THE RIGHT THING FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE? I THINK IT'S VERY BENEFICIAL FOR THE COUNCIL TO BE ABLE TO, UM, HAVE THEIR MOMENT, UH, HAVE THEIR CONVERSATION THAT THEY, THAT EACH COUNCIL PERSON AS THEY CONTINUE TO HEAR INFORMATION, THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO PROCESS IT AND, AND COMMUNICATED OUT.
UM, I DON'T, THE THING OF THE IDEA OF HAVING A TIME LIMIT FOR A COUNCIL MEMBER, UH, I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF, UH, BECAUSE THE, THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION WE RECEIVE UP HERE IS FLUID.
YES, WE DO RECEIVE A PACKET, BUT AS PRESENTATIONS ARE MADE, THINGS CHANGE AND THE COUNCIL MEMBER NEEDS TO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY, HE OR SHE TO DIGEST THAT AND HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.
YES, I FEEL THAT THE PRESIDING OFFICER, HE OR SHE, WHOEVER'S SITTING HERE, IF IT JUST LIKE WITH THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, IF IT'S JUST THE SAME REPETITIVE THING OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, LET'S MOVE ON TO MEETING MM-HMM.
LET'S MOVE ON BECAUSE WE'RE NOT HEARING ANYTHING NEW.
I KNOW MR. MAYOR, A LOT OF TIMES YOU'LL KIND OF SENSE THAT MOMENT AND YOU'LL SAY, OKAY, COUNSEL, WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO WITH THAT ITEM? MM-HMM.
IT'S YOUR TRADEMARK, RIGHT? MM-HMM.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
WELL, THAT'S WHAT THE, THIS MEETING HERE IS FOR, BECAUSE WE CAN ACTUALLY ESTABLISH VERBIAGE THAT SAYS THAT WHEN THE DEBATE OR DISCUSSION IS OVER, THE NEXT SET OF WORDS, THESE WORDS MEAN MM-HMM.
UM, IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, UM, SEEING AS WE'RE COMING UP ON THE FIVE O'CLOCK HOUR, UM, I WOULD, INSTEAD OF RUNNING THROUGH ALL OF THESE, ARE THERE ANY GENERAL COMMENTS, UM, ON ANY SPECIFIC SECTIONS THAT, UH, WE COULD INCORPORATE INTO A DRAFT? UM, I, I KNOW I'M TRYING TO SUMMARIZE A LOT THERE AT THE END, BUT, UM, CAN YOU GO TO THE SECTION PLEASE? UH, TO WHICH, NOT CITIZENS' COMMENTS, BUT COMMENTS ON SPECIFIC ITEMS. HERE WE GO.
YOU KNOW, AS THE DEBATE GOES ON, UH, I'VE SEEN IT COUNTLESS TIME, SOMEONE WILL SAY, WELL, I WASN'T GOING TO SPEAK, BUT I THINK I DO WANT TO SPEAK.
AND SO SIGNING UP AHEAD OF TIME FOR A MEETING TO TALK ABOUT A SPECIFIC ITEM, I WOULDN'T BE IN FAVOR OF THAT.
[00:50:01]
NOW NOT SIGNING UP, BUT THEN, UH, I, ONE OF THE THINGS WE MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER IS HOW LONG DO THEY HAVE TO SPEAK MM-HMM.
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I DO IS THAT WHEN WE HAVE, WE HAVE THE SENSE IN THE ROOM AND WE HAVE A, THAT EVERYONE'S HERE FOR ONE ITEM, I WILL MAKE THE STATEMENT.
AND PREVIOUS MAYORS HAVE MADE THE STATEMENT THAT IF YOU'RE GONNA SAY THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WE'VE HEARD YOU MM-HMM.
I'LL JUST SHARE AN EXPERIENCE.
ONE OF MY PREVIOUS DAYS I WORKED IN, HAD CARDS AT THE BACK OF THE COUNCIL MEETING, AND YOU CAN COME IN AT THE VERY BEGINNING AND SIGN, I WANNA SPEAK ON EIGHT A, AND, AND THEY WOULD EVEN ASK SUPPORT OF POSE OR WHATEVER, BUT THE BENEFIT TO THE CITY CLERK'S OFFICE IS THEY WOULD PUT THEIR NAME AND CONTACT INFORMATION THERE, SO THEY'D HAVE A RECORD.
BUT DURING THAT TIME, THEY'D SAY, YOU KNOW, THE, THE MAYOR WOULD SAY PUBLIC COMMENT ON ANY PARTICULAR ITEM IS RELATED TO THREE MINUTES.
AND OFTEN IF IT WAS A, A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE, HE WOULD, HE OR SHE WOULD GO THROUGH AND SAY, OH, I SEE ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE IN FAVOR, OR ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE OPPOSED SAYING THE SAME THING.
IT JUST GAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE MAYOR TO KIND OF LOOK AT ALL OF 'EM.
GO, DO WE NEED TO HAVE EVERY ONE OF 'EM SPEAK? OR SOMETIMES THEY COULD ASK, SAY, IS THERE A LEADER OF THIS GROUP THAT JUST WANTS TO SPEAK? SO THERE'S, THERE'S OTHER OPTIONS, BUT THERE IS A BENEFIT TO THE CITY CLERK TO NOW KNOW WHO IS COMING UP ON WHAT ITEM.
BUT THAT, COULD THEY STILL SPEAK ON AN ITEM AFTER HEARING IT? SOME PEOPLE DO.
BECAUSE THEY COME AND THEN THEY HEAR AN ITEM AND THINK, OH, AND EITHER HAVE A QUESTION OR A THOUGHT OR A
SOMETIMES YOU'D SEE 'EM GETTING UP AND GO INTO THE BACK AND GET IN THE CAR AND PUT IN IT, AND THEY JUST, THEY COULD WALK UP AND IMMEDIATELY JUST GIVE IT TO THE CLERK.
AND THE IDEA IS OF LIMITING, YOU HAVE A SPOKESPERSON FOR YOUR GROUP.
WE ASK YOU NOT TO BE OVERLY REPETITIVE.
UM, WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY, BUT IF SOMEONE ELSE SAYS THE SAME THING AS SAYS WHAT YOU WANTED TO SAY, YOU COULD JUST SAY, DITTO.
AND I, IT THE, I WAS JUST SIMPLY SAYING TO MAKE MEETINGS FLOW, WELL, IT HAS A LOT TO DO ON WHO'S RUNNING THE MEETING.
AND SO AT SOME POINT IN TIME, WE HEARD YOU'VE HAD TO SAY, I'M SORRY, THIS IS, WE'RE GONNA STOP.
AND THAT DOESN'T WORK VERY WELL TO GET THINGS DONE.
SO MY COMMENT IS JUST BASICALLY, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN OPPOSED TO HAVING SOMEBODY SIGN UP AHEAD OF TIME AND WANNA SPEAK, UH, AS JUST ME.
UH, BUT I KNOW IT'S DONE IN A LOT OF WAYS FOR VARIOUS GOOD, REALLY GOOD REASONS.
UH, BUT, UH, AGAIN, IT, IT'S A REALLY GOOD FUNCTION OF, UH, OF THE MAYOR AND THE PRESIDING OFFICER CHAIR OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION, WHATEVER, UH, TO JUST TO ENCOURAGE AND SET THE TONE AND THE ATMOSPHERE FOR HOW THE BEADS ARE GONNA GO.
SO THAT'S A, THAT'S A KEY IN MY MIND, SIR.
WELL, AND IT SEEMS LIKE, I MEAN, WE HAVEN'T HAD WRITTEN RULES ABOUT HOW WE RUN A MEETING, AND SO MAYBE WE DON'T TRY TO DO EVERYTHING IN THE FIRST ROUND.
'CAUSE WE CAN ADD, I THINK THE MAYOR SAID THAT WE CAN ADD THINGS LATER IF WE FEEL LIKE WE REALLY NEED A WRITTEN RULE ON THIS ISSUE BECAUSE IT KEEPS COMING UP.
AND SO I FEEL LIKE THIS AIN'T BROKEN, IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
ONE THING I POINT OUT, UH, AND MADAM REMINDED ME OF IT, IS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO HAVE LIKE AN INSTRUCTION SHEET THAT WAS KIND OF ATTACHED TO THE FRONT OF THE AGENDA.
UH, IT WAS JUST INSTRUCTIONS TO OUR CITIZENS SAYING, OKAY, IT'S, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE.
SO THERE WERE SOME DISCUSSIONS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT NEW BUSINESS MEANT AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF OUR RULES, UH,
[00:55:01]
PROCEDURES, WHATEVER WE WANT TO COME ACROSS, COME UP WITH, UH, JUST PROVIDING INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IN ADDITION TO THE AGENDA.AND, AND WE'VE RECENTLY STARTED THERE OUT IN THE, OUT IN THE LOBBY HERE, AS WELL AS IN OUR WEBSITE, THERE'S A THREE PAGER EXPLANATION OF YOUR MEETINGS AND, AND THE, THE VARIOUS THINGS THAT YOU'RE EXACTLY TALKING ABOUT.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE STARTED DOING, UM, UH, ONCE WE, WE CHANGED THE AGENDA PROCESS.
UM, I WOULD NOTE, UH, AGAIN, WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, UM, AND I'M, I'M WONDERING IF IT MIGHT, UM, BE HELPFUL, UH, FOR US TO INCORPORATE THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE RECEIVED THUS FAR.
UM, CREATE A DRAFT AND HAVE A FOLLOW UP MEETING, UH, TO HAVE SOME MORE SPECIFIC CONVERSATIONS ABOUT, UM, WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE.
AND THEN I, I GUESS A QUESTION FOR THE COUNCIL IS, AS FAR AS, UM, PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT AND CITIZEN ENGAGEMENT, UM, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WOULD LIKE US TO DO AFTER THAT DRAFT IS CREATED? WOULD YOU, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT, UM, YOU WOULD SPECIFICALLY LIKE US TO DO AS FAR AS REACHING OUT TO THE CITIZENS OUTSIDE OF PUBLIC MEETINGS? UH, I MEAN, I, I ALWAYS WANT TO, I PERSONALLY, I ALWAYS WANT TO HEAR FROM CITIZENS AND JUST KINDA GET THEIR FEEDBACK AND CREATE AN AVENUE FOR THAT.
SO I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
ONE ITEM, I KNOW WHEN WE MET KIND OF ONE-ON-ONE AND, UM, TALKING THROUGH THIS STUFF, ONE THING YOU HAD MENTIONED IS THE CITY MANAGER SETTING THE AGENDA.
UM, THE WAY I SORT OF INTERPRET IT, YOU KNOW, I READ THE, UM, CITY CHARTER AND ENDOWS THE CITY MANAGER WITH CERTAIN RIGHTS AND PRIVILEGES.
UM, ONE IS TO MAKE A MONTHLY REPORT TO THE MARIN CITY COUNCIL, ATTEND ALL MEETINGS, RIGHT.
TO TAKE PLACE IN DISCUSSION, HAVING NO VOTE RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE MARIN CITY COUNCIL ON MEASURES TO KEEP US FULLY ADVISED OF THE FINANCIAL, YOU KNOW, CONDITION OF THE CITY, PREPARE AND SUBMIT BUDGETS AND THEN SUBMIT THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL AT EACH MEETING THERE OF AN ORDER OF BUSINESS COVERING HIS RECOMMENDATIONS.
SO WHEN IT COMES TO AN AGENDA, THE WAY THAT I VIEW THAT IS THAT THE CITY MANAGER SUBMITS TO THE CITY COUNCIL WHAT HE FEELS LIKE THE ITEM SHOULD BE, AND THEN GIVES A REPORT THAT PROBABLY SO THAT IN 1954, YOU KNOW, THE CITY MANAGER JUST DIDN'T GO OFF ON THE, YOU KNOW, ON A HORSE, I DON'T KNOW, WHATEVER.
BUT THAT THERE'S SOME ACCOUNTABILITY.
BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THE POWER TO SET THE AGENDA IS ALWAYS RESERVED TO THE CITY COUNCIL.
NOW, WE COULD DECIDE WE NEED AT LEAST ONE OTHER CITY COUNCILOR TO AGREE TO SET ITEM TO SET.
UH, BUT I WOULDN'T MAKE A, A DEFAULT POLICY THAT IT'S THE PURVIEW OF THE CITY MANAGER TO SET THE CITY COUNCIL AGENDA.
I, I, I CAN'T SPEAK TO AN INTERPRETATION OF THE CITY CHARTER OTHER THAN IT HAS BEEN OUR PRACTICE FOR, UM, A LONG TIME.
UM, THAT, THAT, THAT'S BEEN THE UNDERSTANDING.
UM, AND SO I, AGAIN, I WOULD, I WOULD DEFER ANY LEGAL QUESTIONS TO THE CITY ATTORNEY.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WHAT WE'RE ASKING COUNSEL TO, UH, PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON WHETHER IT'S MAYBE IN THE NEXT MEETING WHEN WE HAVE SOME MORE LANGUAGE IN FRONT OF US WOULD BE HOW THEY WANT TO HANDLE ANY ADDITIONS TO, UM, CITY COUNSEL.
SO WHETHER IT'S ONE PERSON BEING ABLE TO DO IT, WHETHER IT'S TWO PEOPLE, WHETHER IT'S HAVING TO MAKE A MOTION AND ET CETERA.
AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S THE, THE QUESTION THAT, YEAH, I MEAN, ULTIMATELY I WOULD SAY, I WOULD SAY WE COULD DECIDE TO STATE COUNCIL WHAT THE THRESHOLD IS.
IF IT'S ONE, OR WE HAVE TO GET A FELLOW CITY COUNSELOR.
I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THE POWER TO, UH, PLACE THE AGENDA WOULDN'T BE A QUESTION THAT THE CITY COUNCIL WOULD'VE TO ASK.
THE CITY MANAGER WOULD BE THE CITY COUNCIL, UM, INDICATING, AND OF COURSE WE COULD ACCEPT ANY AGENDA ITEMS THAT WE WANTED TO FROM THE CITY MANAGER.
I LIKE THE IDEA OF THE CITY MANAGER.
THE CITY MANAGER'S ACTUALLY IS THE ONES RUNNING THE CITY, RIGHT? AND, AND THE BUSINESS THAT WE'RE VOTING ON IS, IS STAFF AND THE CITY MANAGER HOW TO RUN THE CITY, RUNNING THE CITY.
I LIKE THE IDEA THAT IF WE, IF WE COLLECTIVELY WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING TO THE AGENDA THAT IT TAKES TO COUNCIL PEOPLE TO SAY, AGREE THAT, UH, ITEM A, B, C, WE, WE WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT TO IT, BUT LET THE, LET THE CITY MANAGER DO HIS OR HER JOB OF PUTTING THE ITEMS ON THE AGENDA THAT WE'RE GONNA DISCUSS THAT TO RUN THE CITY, LET HIM OR HER DO THEIR JOB.
AND THEN IF WE FEEL, OR OR TWO COUNCIL PEOPLE UP HERE FEEL THAT SOMETHING ELSE NEEDS TO BE ON THERE, THEY CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION AND AGREE AND THEN HAVE THEIR CONVERSATION WITH THE, THE CITY, UM, MANAGER TO HAVE IT PLACED ON.
AND I WOULD, I WOULD SAY FOR THAT, AND THEN THE OTHER DIRECTION WOULD BE WHAT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE STRIKE AN ITEM IF WE DON'T WANT IT? UH, YOU WON'T FEEL LIKE, OH, THIS ISN'T THE TIME OR PLACE TO DISCUSS THAT, OR WE'RE NOT READY,
[01:00:01]
BUT IT'S PLACED ON THERE.THEN HOW WOULD WE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY THE DECORUM HAS BEEN REALLY WELL RECEIVED IN PRETTY MUCH ANY ITEM THAT WE EITHER DO OR DO NOT WANT TO.
OUR FEEDBACK IS TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
I WOULD JUST, I'M JUST PONDERING THE SORT OF INHERENT RIGHT, UH, CITY COUNCIL TO EITHER PLACE OR TO STRIKE AN ITEM.
AGAIN, I, I WOULD SAY THAT THE ABILITY TO STRIKE AN ITEM WOULD BE OFFERED DURING THE MEETING AT, AT, AT ANY POINT THAT AN ITEM COMES UP.
IF THE MAJORITY WANTS TO CONTINUE AND NOT CONSIDER IT AT THAT MEETING, THEY CAN MOVE TO CONTINUE IT AT THAT TIME.
I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO AVOID IS ANY BEHIND THE SCENES QUORUM VIOLATIONS, OPEN MEETING VIOLATIONS.
AND THAT'S WHY WE PICKED THE NUMBER TWO.
SO IF ONE COUNCIL MEMBER IS TALKING ANOTHER COUNCIL MEMBER, WE WANT TO DIRECT THIS ITEM THAT'S LESS THAN THE MAJORITY, THAT'S NOT GONNA BE A VIOLATION.
AND SO AGAIN, I THINK, I THINK THAT WOULD BE THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION OF HOW TO STRIKE.
UM, AGAIN, IT, IT IS FIVE O'CLOCK AND I DO WANNA BE RESPECTFUL OF ALL OF YOUR TIME.
SO TO MOVE FORWARD, DO YOU WANT US TO, UM, TO SEND YOU OUR OTHER NOTES OR COMMENTS THAT WE MIGHT'VE TAKEN, OR THOUGHTS THAT WE MIGHT'VE, UH, UH, MAYOR, IT WOULD BE, UH, WHATEVER, WHATEVER YOU FEEL APPROPRIATE.
UM, CERTAINLY WE COULD DO THAT.
OR I COULD, UH, BUILD A, A, A BARE BONES DRAFT OF SOME SIMPLE RULES AND WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC HEARING, ANOTHER PUBLIC MEETING DOWN THE ROAD WHERE YOU COULD SAY, I LIKE THIS.
SO IT'S HOWEVER YOU WOULD LIKE TO, LET'S DO BOTH.
WHY DON'T YOU GO AHEAD AND DRAFT A BARE BONES DRAFT THAT, THAT WOULD GIVE US SOMETHING TO ETCH A SKETCH AND, AND START TO EDIT.
BUT THEN ALSO IF COUNSEL, IF YOU'VE MM-HMM.
THANKS COREY FOR ALL YOUR WORK.
IS THERE ANY, ANYONE, SINCE THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING, IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO, ANY COMMENTS THAT YES, VERY HERE.
PLEASE COME UP AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF.
NOW I MAKE IT REAL QUICK 'CAUSE I KNOW YOU GUYS ARE HUNGRY.
UM, CAROLYN MUHOLLAND, I APPRECIATE Y'ALL AND THIS WAS ONE OF THE BEST PRESENTATIONS I'VE SEEN.
I SAW A MEETING THAT WAS HELD HERE SEVERAL YEARS AGO AND I WAS APPALLED AT THE DECORUM.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED SAY IS I AGREE WITH MS. MUG, MRS. MUG.
UM, YOU GUYS NEED TO HAVE, UM, CONSEQUENCES TO PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FOLLOWING THOSE RULES.
THERE'S NO REASON THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE SCREAMING AT YOU, YELLING AT YOU, CALLING YOU NAMES, UM, SAYING SLANDERING YOU.
SO I WAS READING THROUGH ALL WAY BACK IN THERE OF THE DECORUM AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE THINGS I'VE OBSERVED RECENTLY HAPPENING TO YOU ALL.
SO IF YOU HAVE RULES, THERE HAVE TO BE CONSEQUENCES.
AND I KNOW THAT PUTS YOU IN A HORRIBLE POSITION, MAYOR.
BUT IT BREAKS MY HEART TO WATCH THE WAY YOU ALL ARE TREATED.
UM, I ALSO AGREE WITH, UM, MR. MOORE, UH, IF YOU, IF UM, THE FIRST TIME I SPOKE TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION WAS THEY WERE GONNA GATE OFF MY COMMUNITY, IF I HADN'T READ IT IN THE PAPER AND SHOWED UP THAT DAY, I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK.
I'M, I'M, I'M A TERRIBLE PUBLIC SPEAKER AND SO I GET THE CITIZENS' COMMENTS BEING THREE MINUTES, BUT ON A DISCUSSION ITEM, I THINK IT SHOULD BE A LITTLE LONGER BECAUSE YOU CAN SEE I'M TURNING BRIGHT RED
I KNOW YOU ALL, BUT I'M STILL VERY GETTING ALL MY THOUGHTS OUT.
SO ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S ON SOMETHING THAT'S REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT, UM, TOM'S COMPLETELY RIGHT, AND ALL OF YOU ARE, NO, WE WANNA BE HEARD, BUT WE DON'T NEED TO BE DISRESPECTFUL.
THERE'S NO TRANSPARENCY ISSUE IN THIS COMMUNITY.
THERE'S NO, THERE'S NO UNDERHANDING THINGS GOING IN THIS COMMUNITY.
YOU'RE OUR FRIENDS, YOU'RE OUR NEIGHBORS.
UM, AND I THINK THAT'S MY LAST THING.
OH, THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD SAY IS WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE REPETITIVE THING, I DON'T JOIN GROUPS.
SO, UM, WHEN, AND THE COMMENT ABOUT THE CARD, WHETHER, I DON'T KNOW IF I TOTALLY HEARD IT, BUT IT ALMOST SAID IF YOU'RE AGAINST OR FOR, I DON'T ALWAYS KNOW ON AN ISSUE.
UM, SO RAISING YOUR HAND, I PREV MAYOR LAMB WOULD DO THAT.
HE'S GOING, WHO'S HERE TO SPEAK ON THAT ISSUE? AND I JUST THINK, UM, THAT DECORUM, I, I, LIKE I SAID, I'M GONNA GET OUTTA YOUR WAY 'CAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE HUNGRY, BUT IT TOTALLY BREAKS MY HEART THE WAY YOU AND SOME OF THE PREVIOUS COUNCILS HAVE BEEN TREATED RECENTLY.
AND, UM, YOU GUYS ARE DOING A GREAT JOB.
ANO ANOTHER, UH, GOOD WORKSHOP.
GIVES US SOME MORE FOUNDATION TO GO
[01:05:01]
FORWARD.HAVING SAID THAT, UH, CALL THIS WORKSHOP OVER.