[1. Call to Order of the Edmond Planning Commission.]
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WE'RE CALLED TO ORDER THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 18TH, 2025.
[2. Consideration of Approval of Planning Commission Regular Meeting Minutes: November 04, 2025.]
UM, ON THE AGENDA HERE, WE'LL LOOK FOR A MOTION AND AN APPROVAL OR ANY CHANGES TO THE MINUTES FROM THE NOVEMBER 4TH MEETING.DO WE HAVE ANY CHANGES OR COMMENTS TO THAT MEETING? MINUTES.
AND A SECOND MOTION TO APPROVE.
AND THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED ON A VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
[A. Case No. SP25-00012; Public Hearing and Consideration for a Site Plan application for Kind Enterprises-Arise Well Residences, located on the east side of Santa Fe Avenue, south of Edmond Road. (Kind Enterprises; Ward 4) ]
HEARING ITEMS, WE ARE[B. Case No. PR25-00009; Public Hearing and Consideration of a Preliminary Plat for Santa Fe & Mill Valley Addition (aka Kind Enterprises-Arise Well Residences), located on the east side of Santa Fe Avenue, south of West Edmond Road. (Kind Enterprises; Ward 4)]
ACTUALLY GONNA HEAR CASES A AND B AGENDA, ITEM A AND B CASE NUMBER S SP TWO FIVE DASH 0 0 0 1 2, AND CASE NUMBER PR 25 DASH 0 0 0 9.WE'RE GONNA HEAR BOTH OF THESE TOGETHER.
IT'S THE SAME PROJECT, TWO DIFFERENT ITEMS. AND SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE MR. BRIAN PRESENT THAT TO US.
UM, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS APPROXIMATELY THREE ACRES.
THE MAP SHOWS A SPECIFIC LOCATION AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF SANTA FE AND MILL VALLEY.
THE PROPOSED PROJECT INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING DETAILS, TWO BUILDINGS APPROXIMATELY 9,200 SQUARE FEET EACH.
THE ELEVATION SHOW THE BUILDINGS TO BE 29 FEET TALL AT THEIR HIGHEST POINT.
THE FACADE WILL CONSIST OF BRICK AND STUCCO WITH WOOD AND METAL ACCENTS.
THE SUBJECT PROPERTY WE PLATTED INTO TWO LOTS, ONE OF WHICH WILL BE A COMMON AREA FOR DETENTION.
THE APPLICATION INCLUDES FOUR VARIANCES, TWO POINTS OF ACCESS ARE PROPOSED, A FULL ACCESS DRIVE ON SANTA FE AND A RIGHT TURN ONLY DRIVE ON MILL VALLEY.
EACH OF THE PROPOSED DRIVES REQUIRES A VARIANCE.
THE PUD PROVIDED FOR TWO OPTIONS RELATED TO ACCESS.
OPTION A WAS TO OBTAIN PERMISSION FROM THE MILL VALLEY PROPERTY OWNERS TO CUT THE MEDIAN AND BUILD A DRIVE AT LEAST 150 FEET FROM SANTA FE MEETING THE SEPARATION REQUIREMENT.
OPTION B PROPOSED A DRIVE ON SANTA FE WITH 325 FEET OF SEPARATION FROM EITHER MILL VALLEY TO THE SOUTH OR BIGHORN TO THE NORTH.
THE PROPOSED PROJECT INCLUDES COMPONENTS FROM BOTH OPTIONS.
THE MILL VALLEY DRIVE IS APPROXIMATELY 141 FEET FROM SANTA FE.
THE SANTA FE DRIVE IS APPROXIMATELY 313 FEET FROM MILL VALLEY AND 193 FEET FROM BIGHORN.
THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE FROM THE RIGHT OF WAY STANDARD, WHICH REQUIRE 25 FOOT PSYCH TRIANGLE AT THE INTERSECTION OF MILL VALLEY AND SANTA FE.
THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO INSTALL STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS AREA.
THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE FROM THE WATERLINE CONNECTION STANDARD THAT PROHIBITS DEAD ENDS.
A PROPOSED WATERLINE EXTENSION WOULD CREATE A DEAD END.
OUR DEVELOPMENT ENGINEERING TEAM CAN PROVIDE MORE DETAILS REGARDING CONCERNS RELATED TO THESE VARIANCES IF DESIRED.
MR. BRIAN, ANY QUESTIONS OF THE COMMISSIONERS, UM, OF CITY STAFF OR OF OUR ENGINEERING TEAM? UH, YES, MR. COMMISSIONER, I WOULD, UH, I WOULD ASK, UH, CITY STAFF TO, UH, POTENTIALLY ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF THE TEMPORARY DEAD END OR THE DEAD END BECAUSE IT APPEARS IT'S NOT TEMPORARY IN NATURE.
IS THAT CORRECT? SO IF IT'S EXTENDED WITHOUT CONNECTING TO ANOTHER LINE, IT WILL BE PERMANENT AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
THAT WATER LINE, IF EXTENDED WILL BE A PERMANENT DEAD END, WHICH WE DISCOURAGE AND TRIED AND NOT LET HAPPEN BECAUSE OF WATER QUALITY ISSUES IN THE LINE.
BECAUSE IN A LINE THAT SIZE LINE, THERE WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH WATER MOVEMENT THROUGH IT TO KEEP THE WATER IN A GOOD WATER QUALITY SHAPE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF CITY STAFF? UM, REGARDING, UH, ANY, THE PRESENTATION FROM THE COMMISSIONERS IS THE, THE Y DID HAVE A QUESTION FOR EITHER MR. BRIAN OR, SO THERE IS AN EXISTING, UH, DRIVEWAY ON THIS SITE.
IS THIS NOT WHERE THIS ONE ON SANTA FE IS LOCATED? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE THERE, I MEAN, THERE'S EXISTING CURB CUT FROM THAT HOUSE'S DRIVEWAY, THE PREVIOUS HOUSE THAT WAS THERE.
I WAS WONDERING WHAT, WHAT THE DISTANCE WAS.
AND THAT IS, AND THAT CANNOT, THAT IS, WOULD THAT NOT BE USED FOR THE ENTRANCE FOR THIS? UM, IT, IT, IT MIGHT, COULD BE THAT WOULD'VE BEEN A RESIDENTIAL CUT.
MAYBE KEITH OR AUSTIN, YOU MIGHT WANNA WEIGH IN ON THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD LIKE FOR NEW, THE NEW PROJECT OR THE RE REDEVELOPMENT OF THE SITE TO COME INTO THE CONCURRENT STANDARD
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AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.I WAS SAYING FROM THE, FROM THE, THE DISTANCE AT LEAST.
WELL THAT'S, THAT IS RESIDENTIAL DRIVE, SO IT NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY REBUILT.
UM, IF THEY'RE SHIFTING A LITTLE BIT, THAT'S, THAT'S FINE.
UM, WE DON'T HAVE A LARGE ISSUE WITH THE SEPARATION DRIVE SEPARATIONS.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO, UH, MR. JONES, WOULD YOU LIKE TO ADD ANYTHING MR. BRIAN HAS, UH, PRESENTED TO US SO FAR? WELL, I WON'T ADD ANYTHING TO WHAT HE'D SAID, BUT I WILL KIND OF DISCUSS SOME OF THE ITEMS. PLEASE DO.
I'M CONCERNED ON THE PROJECT, IF THAT'S OKAY.
I'M DAVID JONES WITH THE ORION GROUP, UH, HERE ON BEHALF OF THE APPLICANT.
SO WE'VE GOT A, UH, A PROJECT, UH, ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY, UM, TWO BUILDINGS, 18,400 SQUARE FOOT EACH.
UM, WE'VE GOT TWO ENTRANCE COMPONENTS ASSOCIATED WITH THE DRIVE.
UM, ONE OF THE VARIANCES IS ASSOCIATED WITH, UH, SITE TRIANGLE AND DRIVE SEPARATION.
UH, WE'VE RUN THIS PAST THE CITY'S ENGINEER, TRAFFIC ENGINEER COR, AND, UM, HE'S IN ACCEPTANCE AND APPROVAL OF THE, UM, VARIANCES OR OF THE DRIVE LOCATION.
IT'S NOT SO MUCH OF THE VARIANCE, IT'S PROBABLY A MISSTATEMENT, BUT OF THE DRIVE LOCATIONS THEMSELVES.
UM, THE HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION, UM, I, I CAN'T SPEAK DIRECTLY TO, UM, THAT I KNOW IN THE, UH, EARLY PHASES THAT THE, UH, LEGAL COUNSEL FOR THE DEVELOPER, UH, WAS RESEARCHING AND REACHING OUT TO THE MILL VALLEY HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION ABOUT THE CURB CUT.
AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE, UH, END RESULT OF THAT WAS.
I SUSPECT THAT IT WAS, UH, NO, A NON-STARTER.
UH, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT ORGANIZATION, UH, AS IT WAS UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME, WAS A ACTIVE, VIABLE ORGANIZATION AND THERE WAS NOBODY TO CONTACT ON THAT FRONT.
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING ON THAT SIDE.
UM, THE DRIVE SEPARATION, ESPECIALLY ON THE ONE ON SANTA FE, UH, HEY DAVID, WILL YOU PULL THAT CLOSER TO YOUR MOUTH? OKAY.
THE DRIVE SEPARATION THERE ON SANTA FE.
YOU KNOW, WE, UH, WE HAVE A, UM, A, A FINITE, UH, FRONTAGE ALONG SANTA FE AND THEN WE HAVE ROADWAYS ON OUR NORTH AND ROADWAYS ON OUR SOUTH.
SO THERE IS NO ABILITY TO MEET THAT 325 FEET BY PUTTING A DRIVE EITHER WHERE YOU PUT IT.
IT'S EITHER GONNA BE CLOSER TO ONE STREET THAN THE 3 25 OR CLOSER TO THE OTHER.
UM, WE DID A SITE, UM, DISTANCE ANALYSIS WHERE YOU TO SANTA FE THERE TO THE NORTH BY SILVER FOX AND EVERYTHING CHECKED OUT FOR WHERE THE LOCATION IS.
WE RAN THAT THROUGH THE, UH, CITY'S TRAFFIC ENGINEER AND HE WAS ACCEPTING OF THE, UH, DRIVE LOCATIONS.
SO, UM, SOUTH DRIVE LOCATION, WE, UH, MAIN FOCUS THERE WAS WITH THE, UH, FIRE DEPARTMENT.
UM, WE HAD MEETINGS AND DISCUSSIONS WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT ABOUT ACCESSIBILITY FROM THAT LOCATION IN CASE SOMETHING ON SANTA FE HAD BLOCKED THAT MAIN ENTRANCE.
UH, WE DESIGNED THE CURB RADIUSES AND EVERYTHING SO THAT IT WOULD, UH, FIT THEIR FIRE APPARATUS AND THEY WERE ACCEPTING OF THAT ALSO.
SO, UM, EVERYTHING ON THAT VARIANCE.
UM, WE'VE RUN THROUGH, I BELIEVE, THE PROPER CHANNELS AT THE CITY AND, AND GOTTEN THUMBS UP ON ALL THOSE, UH, SITE TRIANGLE.
WE'VE GOT A DETENTION FACILITY THERE.
IT, UH, STICKS UP PROBABLY ABOUT A FOOT HIGHER THAN WHAT THE EXISTING GRADE IS THERE NOW.
UM, WE'VE GRANTED A 70 FOOT RIGHT OF WAY, AN ADDITIONAL, UH, 20 FOOT OFF OF, UH, THE EXISTING THERE.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, AS IT STANDS RIGHT NOW, THERE IS NO SIGHT, WOULD BE NO SIGHT, UH, PROBLEM AND NO NEED FOR A SIGHT TRIANGLE BECAUSE OF WHERE TRAFFIC WOULD STOP AT THE TURN, CURB RETURNS TO TURN ONTO SANTA FE.
AND EVEN WHEN, AND IF SANTA FE WERE TO BE IMPROVED WITH LIKE LEFT TURN MOVEMENTS OR ANYTHING, WE'D EXTEND THAT PROBABLY ANOTHER 13 FEET, UH, LANE WIDTH TO THE EAST ONTO OUR TRACK OR TOWARDS OUR TRACK ANYWAY IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
THEY WOULD STILL LEAVE APPROXIMATELY 40 SOME ODD FEET.
AND, UH, AGAIN, I THINK IN VISITING WITH THE, UH, TRAFFIC ENGINEER AND, AND MAYBE MR. VEDY CAN, HE'S ALSO VISITED WITH THEM.
THEY DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE, UM, WITH THE NONS SITE TRIANGLE THERE AT THAT CORNER.
SO THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND ON THE, UH, ON THE ROADWAYS IN THE, UH, AND, AND THAT ASPECT OF IT.
AS FAR AS THE WATER LINE GOES, UM, WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS WE EXTENDED OUR WATER LINE, UM, TO WITHIN FIVE FEET OF OUR NORTH PROPERTY LINE.
THAT'S KIND OF TYPICALLY HOW CODE LOOKS AT THAT AND, AND REQUIRES THAT.
UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WITH THE DEVELOPMENT HAVING OCCURRED TO THE NORTH, THE OPTIONS OF SOMEBODY COMING IN AND CONNECTING AND EXTENDING TO THAT CONNECTING AT THAT POINT ARE PROBABLY
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MINIMAL.UM, THERE IS NOT AN EXTENSION OFF OF THE CHISHOLM LAKE SUBDIVISION TO THE SOUTH TO THEIR PROPERTY LINE FOR US TO CONNECT TO.
SO I THINK WHAT, UH, WE MIGHT BE ASKED TO, IF WE WERE TO BE LOOKED AT TO EXTEND THAT WATER LINE WOULD BE TO EXTEND IT THROUGH THE RIGHT OF WAY UP TO AND CONNECT TO A LINE THAT'S IN CHISHOLM LAKE.
AND, UH, OF COURSE WE WOULD'VE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN THEM HAVE TO EXTEND THEIR LINE TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND, AND WE'D EXTEND OURS AND THEN WE'D JUST INTERCONNECT THEM.
SO THERE IS THE POTENTIAL, UM, AFTER SOME DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY THAT UH, WE MAY HAVE TO EXTEND THAT WATER LINE AND MAKE THAT CONNECTION.
NOW, I WILL TELL YOU THAT IT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC IN THAT AREA.
UM, AND I WILL BE THROWN UNDER A BUS WITH URBAN FORESTRY BECAUSE THERE IS SOME TIMBER AND TREES AND THE LIKES THAT SIT IN THERE THAT IF WE WERE TO BE REQUIRED TO DO THAT, UM, WE WILL MOST LIKELY IMPACT IN A NEGATIVE WAY.
SO ONE OF OUR THOUGHTS IS, IS TO, WE'VE GOT 548 FEET, I THINK OF WATERLINE THERE.
UM, AND I ONLY DID THAT BECAUSE WHAT WE WERE EXTENDING IT TO WITHIN FIVE FEET OF THE PROPERTY LINE, UH, AS WE ANTICIPATED CODE WOULD REQUIRE.
HOWEVER, WE COULD TERMINATE THAT WATERLINE JUST TO THE NORTH SIDE BEHIND THE CURB OF WHERE YOU SEE, UM, THE MAIN DRIVE COMING ON SANTA FE.
WE HAVE A FIRE HYDRANT SITTING THERE.
WE COULD SHORTEN THAT LINE UP BY 136 FEET AND, UH, ELIMINATE, UH, A LARGE PART OF THAT, UH, CONCERN AS FAR AS THE LINE GOES.
THAT LINE ALSO GRADES BACK TO, UM, MILL VALLEY.
SO IF, UH, THERE WERE ANY SECESSION OF FLOW IN THAT LINE, ALL THAT WATER WOULD DRAIN BACK OUTTA THAT LINE AND NOT SIT IN THAT LINE.
THERE'S NO SUMPS LOCATIONS OR ANYTHING BACK LIKE THAT IN THE LINE.
AND ONE THAT WE WOULD PROBABLY PROFFER AND, UH, BE MORE THAN AGREEABLE TO.
IT WOULD REALLY TERMINATE IT AS A DEAD END LINE BECAUSE WE'D CONNECT OUR SERVICE POINT AT THAT TERMINATION POINT.
SO, UH, INSTEAD OF FIRE HYDRANT THERE AT THE END OF THE LINE IS, UH, REQUIRED.
AND, UH, AT THAT POINT I WOULD NOT PERSONALLY CONCEIVE IT AS BEING A DEAD END LINE.
WE WOULD HAVE IT CONNECTED TO THE BUILDING AT ITS TERMINUS POINT.
ANY COMMISSIONERS HAVE QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT AT THIS TIME? YEAH, I DO.
UM, SO AS FAR AS THE 25 FOOT VARI, I MEAN, UM, SITE TRIANGLE, SO THE, UH, RETENTION AREA, WOULD THAT PREVENT THE SITE ANGLE? DOES THAT COME UP HIGH ENOUGH THAT YOU WON'T HAVE ANY, UH, THE APPROPRIATE SITE IN THAT REGARD? 'CAUSE UM, I WILL PERSONALLY SAY NO.
AND I'LL ALSO LET MR. BEATTY, WE, WE'VE HAD A MEETING ABOUT THAT WE MET YESTERDAY ON THAT MATTER AND LOOKED AT WHAT THE GRADES WOULD BE.
NO, UM, WE'RE COMING UP ABOUT A FOOT IN THAT LOCATION.
UM, 14 INCHES IN THAT LOCATION, BOTH WHAT THE EXISTING GRADE IS CURRENTLY.
SO IT DEPENDS IF YOU'RE IN A CORVETTE OR A SUV, RIGHT? BIG DIFFERENCE.
EVERYTHING IS BASED UPON, LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY, A 30 INCH, UM, ELEVATION.
SO THAT'S PRETTY CORVETTE ISH, MORE SO THAN SUV.
I HAVE REVIEWED IT WITH OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER AND WE'VE LOOKED AT IT AND EVEN IF WE DID SOME POTENTIAL WIDENING FOR A LEFT TURN LANE WHERE THE CAR WOULD BE STOPPED, WOULD STILL BE AHEAD OF THAT, BE IN FRONT OF THAT AREA WHERE THEY WOULD STILL HAVE THE APPROPRIATE SIDE DISTANCE TO SEE AND CARS COMING UP AND DOWN SANTA FE WOULD BE ABLE TO SEE THEM.
UM, MY FIRST, UH, THE SECOND QUESTION IS MY FIRST, UH, RESPONSE ON THIS DRIVE.
I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW CLOSE IT IS TO BIGHORN.
UM, AND I I I TAKE IT FROM YOUR COMMENTS THAT THAT ISN'T REALLY A CONCERN FROM, UH, EITHER YOU OR, UH, FROM THE, UH, FROM ENGINEERING.
UH, DID YOU THINK ABOUT MAYBE A ENTRANCE ONLY ON THAT PROPERTY AND THEN AN EXIT ONLY ON MILL VALLEY? UH, WOULD THAT WELL, WE DID.
AND A LOT OF THAT FELL TO, YOU KNOW, THE, OUR ABILITY TO GET A MEDIAN CURB CUT.
'CAUSE OTHERWISE YOU GOT RIGHT TURN ONLYS TO GET INTO OUR LOCATION, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE TO DRIVE PAST THE SITE THROUGH THE MEDIAN, MAKE A U-TURN IN A, YOU KNOW, SINGLE LANE AND TRY TO GET BACK IT IN, UM, WITHOUT THE CURB CUTTING WITH THE MEDIAN BARRIER.
SO SINCE THAT DID NOT COME TO FRUITION, UM, THAT WAS A CONSIDERATION EARLY ON.
OH, NO, UH, ENTRANCE OFF OF SANTA FE.
IS IT ENTRANCE ONLY OFF OF SANTA FE?
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OH, AN ENTRANCE ONLY, YEAH.DID WE CONSIDER THAT? WELL, WE DID ACCEPT, UH, FROM A SAFETY STANDPOINT IN CASE SOMETHING HAPPENED ON SANTA FE THAT BLOCKED THAT FIRE SAFETY WOULD OKAY.
AND YEAH, THAT, THAT, THAT CONCEPT BETWEEN BIGHORN AND SILVER FOX, THOSE TWO STREETS, OF COURSE BIGHORNS ON THE WEST, SILVER FOX IS ON OUR SIDE.
UM, AND THOSE SEPARATIONS TO SILVER FOX ARE, ARE, ARE GOOD.
UH, BIG HORN BEING ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET.
BUT EITHER WAY, WE MOVE THAT ENTRANCE.
WE'RE GONNA SHORT ONE OF OUR, UM, RIGHT, 325 FOOT COMMERCIAL DRIVE CODES, EITHER FROM MILL VALLEY OR FROM THERE.
UM, WE WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS OF DOING A, UH, YOU KNOW, SITE ANALYSIS TOPPING THAT CURB RIGHT THERE NEAR BIG HORN TOPPING THAT HILL, THAT BIG HORN AND WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE.
UM, WE'VE GOT FLAT GRADES ALL THE WAY TO 15TH STREET TO THE SOUTH.
I MEAN, I CAN SEE FROM 15TH STREET TO THIS POINT, UM, FROM FROM 15TH STREET.
BUT, UH, WHERE OUR REAL CONSIDERATION COMES IS, IS UM, COMING TO THE, FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH.
BUT THAT HELPS BECAUSE IT'S ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE STREET ALSO.
SO YOU, WE, WE'VE GOT PLENTY OF DISTANCE, PLENTY OF, I SAY PLENTY.
WE'VE GOT SITE DISTANCE APPROVAL FROM THE CITY ON THAT, ON THAT LOCATION.
AND KEITH, YOU'RE, YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT? YEAH, I'VE DISCUSSED IT WITH, ALONG WITH OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER AND LOOKING AT IT, IF SOMEBODY'S MAKING A LEFT OUTTA THIS SITE, THERE IS ENOUGH SEPARATION THAT IF SOMEBODY'S MAKING A RIGHT OFF A BIG HORN ONTO SANTA FE AND THEN SOMEBODY'S MAKING A LEFT OUTTA THIS SIDE, THERE SHOULD BE ENOUGH DISTANCE FOR THEM TO BE ABLE TO SEE EACH OTHER AND NOT HAVE A MAJOR CONFLICT IN TRAFFIC MOVEMENTS.
AND THIS, THAT SANTA FE CONNECTION POINT IS SLIGHTLY SOUTH OF WHERE THAT RESIDENTIAL DRIVE WAS, SO IT'S GOTTA GIVE A LITTLE MORE SIGHT DISTANCE EVEN.
MIGHT BE, BUT LA LAST QUESTION.
UM, ARE, UH, KEITH, ARE YOU OKAY WITH, UH, SOME OF THE ALTERNATIVES THAT HE SAID ABOUT THE UM, UM, WATER MAIN, OUR CODE AND AND ENGINEERING AND WATER RESOURCES BOTH STRIVE NOT TO HAVE DEAD END LINES BECAUSE IT DOES LEAD TO WATER QUALITY PROBLEMS. IT DOES GIVE US MORE LOCATIONS THAT HAVE TO BE FLUSHED ON A 30 DAY BASIS.
AND SO WE TRY TO PREVENT DEAD END LINES AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
UH, SO WE'RE REALLY ENCOURAGING Y'ALL TO REQUIRE THE WATERLINE TO BE LOOPED.
SO, MR. BAY, YOUR HONOR, CORRECT.
I ONE OF THE, SORRY, ONE OF THE PROPOSALS WAS MOVING AND, AND CHANGING THE LOCATION OF A FIRE HYDRANT, BUT AGAIN, IT APPEARS FROM CODE THAT THE FIRE HYDRANT IS USED TO AS A TEMPORARY SOLUTION FOR A DEAD END LINE.
SO WE WOULD STILL HAVE A DEAD END LINE THERE, IS THAT CORRECT? YES, AND I, ONE THING WE WOULD DO, THEY'VE GOT, IS EXTENDED ACROSS THE FRONT, BUT I HAVE SPOKE WITH MR. JONES.
IF, IF THE VARIANCE IS GRANTED, WE WOULD JUST PULL, PULL THE LINE BACK TO WHERE THE MANHOLE OR NOT THE MANHOLE, THE FIRE HYDRANT IS AT THE ENTRY DRIVE AND THAT THE DEAD END WOULD END THERE AT THE FIRE HYDRANT IF THE VARIANCE IS GRANTED.
BUT IT WOULD STILL BE A DEAD END LINE, WHICH THE CODE RECOMMENDS WE NOT APPROVE.
AND HOW FAR OFF WAS THE LINE YOU'D HAVE TO ATTACH TO ON THE CHISHOLM CREEK? ABOUT 150 FEET.
UM, AND I ASSUME IT'S ON THE FRONTAGE THERE, I ASSUME THERE'S AN EASEMENT ON THE FRONT.
YEAH, THEY'RE RUNNING ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE CURB, LINE OF SILVER FOX.
SO THEY'RE ON OUR SIDE, BUT WE'VE GOT QUITE A BIT BETWEEN US AND THEM.
WE'VE GOT CITY SIDEWALK, WE'VE GOT YEP.
UM, WE'VE GOT QUITE A FEW OTHER UTILITIES.
UM, I SO IT'S A MATTER OF ECONOMICS, CORRECT? WELL, THERE, YEAH, THERE, THERE'S A LARGE PART OF THAT.
UM, THERE IS A COST CONSIDERATION ASSOCIATED WITH THAT.
UM, I UNDERSTAND KEITH'S POSITION, UM, AND I I THINK HE UNDERSTANDS MINE BY SHORTENING THAT LINE AND MAKING THE CONNECTION OF THE BUILDING SERVICE LINE AND THE FIRE LINE AT THAT POINT, FIRE LINE WON'T FLOW OFTEN THE BUILDINGS FLOW, UH, SERVICE LINE WILL FLOW DAILY.
SO BY DEFINITION, AND, AND IF YOU READ THE CODE, IT UH, IT RECOMMENDS, UH, THEY DISCOURAGE DEAD END LINES.
THEY DON'T PROHIBIT, THEY JUST DISCOURAGE DEAD END LINES AND, AND THAT I APPRECIATE.
UM, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, I MEAN FROM A DEFINITION STANDPOINT, IF WE'D MAKE THAT SERVICE TAP AT THE END OF THAT LINE AND THERE'S ONLY A FIVE FOOT SECTION EXTENDING TO THAT FIRE HYDRANT ON THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE'S ABOUT FIVE FOOT OF DEAD END LINE THERE VERSUS ANY THAT WHOLE ENTIRE LENGTH OF LINE
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BEING DEEMED AND DEFINED AS DEAD END.ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE APPLICANT? OF THE COMMISSIONERS AT THE MOMENT? UH, I'VE GOT A REALLY QUICK ONE, UH, TREE PRESERVATION.
FIRST OFF, THANK YOU FOR DOING THAT TREE STUDY.
UM, THE HOUSES THAT BACK UP TO THIS PROPERTY, ARE YOU WILLING TO LEAVE ANY OF THE TREES THERE SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS? UH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT TO THE EAST? YEAH.
UH, TO THE EAST, TO THE NORTH, NO PROBLEM.
YEAH, TO THE EAST BECAUSE THE, UM, WE HAVE A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE A SANITARY SEWER LINE.
IT BASICALLY RUNS THAT EAST PROPERTY LINE TO A POINT.
SO WE CAN DO EVERYTHING WE CAN, ANY TREES THAT ARE PROBABLY, AND WE HAVE A FENCE, A SITE PROOF FENCE.
SO THAT'S ANOTHER REQUIREMENT.
SO ANY TREES THAT WE CAN SAVE, WE DEFINITELY WILL.
UM, BECAUSE OUR GRADE TIES IN TO THE TOP OF THAT BANK RIGHT THERE, UM, WE WON'T HAVE A CONCERN WITH HAVING TO GRADE THROUGH ANY OF THOSE TREES.
HOWEVER, TO CONSTRUCT THAT SANITARY SEWER LINE, WE ARE GONNA HAVE TO CLEAR A PORTION OF THAT EASEMENT.
SO YES, THERE WILL BE SOME TREES THAT REMAIN, BUT THERE WILL NOT BE A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF TREES THAT ARE THERE AT THIS POINT IN TIME.
AND ONCE THAT SEWER LINE GOES IN, CAN THEY GO IN AND PLANT OVER THOSE? I GUESS THEY WOULDN'T RECOMMEND THAT YOU CAN.
UM, TWO THINGS THE CITY FROWNS ON, UM, IS ONE PLANT WITHIN THEIR EASEMENT.
'CAUSE IT'S GONNA GET RIPPED OUT.
THEY ACTUALLY DON'T ALLOW YOU OR COUNT ANY TREES THAT ARE PLANTED EVEN WITHIN SIX FOOT OUTSIDE THAT EASEMENT.
SO, UM, I DON'T THINK THE CITY WOULD HAVE A DESIRE FOR US TO PLAN IN THERE IN CASE THEY HAD TO COME IN.
AND SINCE IT'S PUBLICLY DEDICATED, COME IN AND MAINTAIN THAT LINE AND WIND UP HAVING TO RIP OUT THOSE TREES.
AND MR. JONES, ONE MORE QUESTION.
YES, I BELIEVE YOU, YOU HAD INDICATED THAT THE CITY CODE OR THE, THE, UH, TITLE 21 AS IT READS BASICALLY STATES THAT THE, UH, STRONGLY DISCOURAGED, STRONGLY DISCOURAGED, BUT THEN IT HAS, IT HAS SOME THAT'S IT READS IN THE NOTES AND THEN THE NEXT LINE SAYS, OR PART OF THAT SAYS AND SHOULD NOT BE APPROVED.
AND THEN IF YOU READ THE NEXT SENTENCE, DOESN'T THAT CONTEMPLATE POTENTIAL APPROVAL ON A TEMPORARY BASIS? AND BASED UPON WHAT MR. BEATTY HAS SAID, THIS CERTAINLY WILL NOT BE A TEMPORARY BASIS.
WELL, IT WON'T BE, AGAIN, I, I'M NOT ARGUING WITH KEITH.
UM, BUT SOMEBODY COULD MAKE THAT CONNECTION FROM US TO, UM, SILVER FOX, WHETHER IT BE THE CITY OR, OR SOMEBODY ELSE DURING THE WIDENING OF, UH, SANTA FE OR NOT.
SO, UH, I THINK IT WOULD BE A LONG, LONG TERM TEMPORARY
UH, BUT I WOULD NEVER DO AN ABSOLUTE AND SAY NEVER.
I MEAN, IT SOMEBODY, SOMEBODY COULD SAY, HEY, WE NEED BETTER WATER CAPACITY IN CHISHOLM LAKE AND SO WE'RE GONNA MAKE THIS CONNECTION.
BUT IF YOU LOOK, WELL, THIS JUST FROM A WATER STANDPOINT, YOU KNOW, THAT LINE IS LOOPED ONE WE'RE CONNECTED TO IT IS LOOPED ON THE, FROM THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF SANTA FE UP AND MAKES THAT CONNECTION TO CHISHOLM LAKE TOO.
SO FROM A HYDRAULIC ANALYSIS AND LOOPING STANDPOINT, UM, IT'S REALLY NOT NECESSARY OR VIABLE FROM A CODE REQUIREMENT.
AND FROM WHAT MR. BEATTY'S SAYING ABOUT WATER QUALITY, I UNDERSTAND, UM, AGAIN, BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE CONNECTIONS FLOWING CONNECTIONS AT THE VERY END OF THAT LINE, I WOULD MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT IT'S NOT A DEAD END LINE THEN AT THAT POINT, THE WAY IT'S DESIGNED NOW, YES, IT GOES PAST THE FIRE HYDRANT AND IT'S GOT THAT SECTION ALL THE WAY UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE.
BUT IF WE MAKE THAT SHORTENING OF THAT LINE, WE ATTACH OUR SERVICE TO THE BUILDING AT THAT END POINT, THEN IT'S FLOWING DAILY AND NOT DEAD END IN THAT, IN THAT DEFINITION STANDPOINT.
THANK YOU JUDGE, AND I APPRECIATE THAT.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS OF THE COMMISSIONERS AT THIS TIME OF THE APPLICANT? OKAY, SEEING NONE NOW, WE WILL OPEN UP TO PUBLIC COMMENTS.
AND AS A REMINDER FOR EVERYBODY, PLEASE ADDRESS ALL YOUR QUESTIONS TO THE CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE.
AND THEN ONCE WE HAVE ALL THE QUESTIONS, UH, WE WILL THEN BRING THE APPLICANT BACK UP AND WE WILL GET ANSWERS AS, AS BEST WE CAN.
UM, REMINDER, YOU ONLY GET ONE CHANCE AT THE DICE, SO, UH, SO PLEASE RESERVE YOUR COMMENTS OR MAKE 'EM ALL THE ONE TIME YOU GO.
SO IF YOU WILL, WHOEVER WANTS TO START, PLEASE COME UP AND, UH, JUST GIVE US YOUR NAME AND YOUR ADDRESS IF WE HAVE ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS PROJECT.
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TAYLOR WILSON.I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO FOLLOW STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION RELATIVE TO THAT LOOP.
THERE'S A REASON THAT'S IN THE CODE.
AND THEN I WOULD ALSO ASK IF IT'S A SENIOR, UH, ANTICIPATED USE OF THE FACILITY.
IS THE SITE LINE APPROPRIATE? AND I ASSUME STAFF LOOKED AT IT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, BUT IT'LL BE MORE SENIOR DRIVERS AND CUTTING ACROSS TO TURN LEFT.
'CAUSE UH, I AGREE WITH THE SINGLE, SINGLE IN THE SENSE OF INTEREST FOR SIDE.
SO THAT WAS JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.
ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK FOR, AGAINST THIS PROJECT? YEAH.
MY NAME IS JACK MCDOWELL AND I LIVE AT 2317 FRISCO WAY, WHICH IS RIGHT IN THE CURVE INSIDE THE GOLDEN LANE, COMING TO THE LEFT DOWN AROUND THE CIRCLE AND COME BACK OUT.
I DON'T KNOW, I'M JUST NO COUNTRY BOY.
I, I MOVED HERE IN 2014, BUILT THAT HOUSE AND, UH, THE TRAFFIC IS TERRIBLE RIGHT THERE.
I DUNNO WHAT, AND YOU ALL MIGHT HAVE ALREADY ADDRESSED THAT.
I'M ALSO HARD, A LITTLE BIT HARD HERE AND YOU MIGHT HAVE ALREADY ADDRESSED A LITTLE OF IT, SO I'M SORRY FOR THAT.
BUT, UH, UH, WE, WHEN WE MOVED HERE AND BUILT THAT HOUSE, UH, THE FIRST DAY AFTER I MOVED IN, MY, MY WIFE AND I, BECAUSE SHE'S NOT WITH ME NOW, BUT MY, MY WIFE AND I DECIDE, WELL, WE WAIT UNTIL IN THE MORNING TO UNPACK AND GO GET SOMETHING TO EAT.
SO I RUN UP TO MCDONALD'S UP THERE ON THE 15TH AND GOT, UH, WHAT WE NEEDED, COME BACK.
WELL THAT WAS 45 MINUTES AT SEVEN O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING TRYING TO GET OUT OF DEERFIELD TOO.
WE'RE THE HOUSES, THE DEERFIELD'S ACTUALLY THE CONDOS.
BUT IT TOOK ME FOREVER TO GET OUTTA THERE.
SO MY BIGGEST QUESTION, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMEBODY'S ALREADY ASKED ABOUT A STOPLIGHT, AND I UNDERSTAND, UH, FOR SOME REASON WE CAN'T HAVE THEM, UH, PROBABLY AT ALL.
UM, I'M NOT, I'M NOT GOING TO CHECK INTO THAT, BUT IT, WE'RE, WE'RE REALLY GOING TO HAVE A PROBLEM ON SANTA FE AND GOLDEN LAKE TO GET INTO DEERFIELD TOO.
AND, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT WAS ADDRESSED.
UH, ONCE AGAIN, THAT'S MY HEARING, BUT, UH, I HATE TO SEE THAT THEY BUILT THAT PLACE FOR 55 PLUS.
WELL, I'M 88 AND I, I DON'T THINK ABOUT HAVING TO MOVE, GO TO ANOTHER HOLE SOMEWHERE, BUT, AND I KNOW IT CAN BE POSSIBLE.
UH, WHEN I CAME TO EDMOND, OKLAHOMA AT NIGHT, WELL, I WAS DOWN HERE AT CENTRAL STATE IN 1956 AND UH, IT JUST, UH, BOOM.
I WOULDN'T WANT NONE OF YOU'S JOB, PERIOD.
HELLO, MY NAME IS LOU LAMPSON AND I'M PRESIDENT OF DEERFIELD TWO HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION.
WE ARE A NEIGHBORHOOD OF 38 SINGLE STORY HOMES.
WE'RE JUST SOUTH OF THE CONDOMINIUMS. AND I JUST WOULD LIKE TO REITERATE WHAT JACK SAID.
UH, MOST OF OUR COMMUNITY ARE OLDER CITIZENS, 55 AND OLDER, THE MAJORITY.
UM, AND THE TRAFFIC IS DEFINITELY A PROBLEM.
I KNOW THERE'S A STOP SIGN TO THE, I MEAN, I KNOW THERE'S A STOPLIGHT AT THE BACK ENTRANCE TO SANTA FE, UH, AND I ASSUME ANOTHER ONE CANNOT BE ERECTED.
UH, I WANT TO, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT OUR HOMEOWNERS HAVE ASKED ME TO ASK YOU BECAUSE, UH, IT'S TOO CLOSE TO THE ONE AT SECOND STREET, IS THAT CORRECT? OKAY.
WE'RE ALL CONCERNED BECAUSE THE TRAFFIC IS ATROCIOUS AND REX AND I REALLY LIKE THE IDEA OF A SEPARATE ENTRANCE AND EXIT.
I THINK THAT COULD SOLVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS. BUT
SO THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO ME.
[00:30:02]
ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS PROJECT BEFORE WE CLOSE? PUBLIC COMMENTS? HEARING NONE, PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE CLOSED.IF YOU CARE TO ADDRESS JUST A QUICK ADDRESS OF TRAFFIC.
UM, THERE WILL BE 32 UNITS, UM, NONE OF WHICH THE RESIDENTS WILL BE DRIVING.
UM, THERE'LL BE TWO STAFFERS SET AT 24 HOURS AND THEN FOUR TOTAL AT ANY GIVEN INSTANT.
SO, UH, AT MAX WE'LL GENERATE PROBABLY FOUR CAR TRIPS, FIVE, SIX CAR TRIPS PER DAY FROM STAFF.
NOW THE TENANTS AND THE RESIDENTS WILL HAVE VISITORS.
SO THERE IS THE OPTION, UH, TO KNOW, NOT KNOW WHAT THAT IS, BUT THEY WILL HAVE.
BUT FROM A STANDPOINT OF US PROVIDING A, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC FLOW, WE, UH, WE DON'T REALLY FORESEE US ADDING TO WHAT IS A CURRENT SITUATION AND CONDITION THERE.
UH, NO MORE COMMENTS OF THE COMMISSIONERS, CORRECT? ANYBODY HAVE? PERFECT.
WELL, I, SO AT THIS MOMENT, OH, SORRY.
I'D LIKE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION.
CAN WE VOTE ON THESE SEPARATELY? SOMETIMES WE DO AND SOMETIMES WE DON'T.
YEAH, I MEAN, I IS THE MOTION YEAH, WE CAN VOTE ON SEPARATELY THAT.
SO WE'LL LOOK FOR A MOTION FOR, LET'S SEE, AGENDA ITEM NUMBER A, WHICH IS CASE NUMBER SP 2 5 0 0 0 1 2, WHICH IS THE SITE PLAN APPLICATION MOTION TO APPROVE.
WE HAVE A, A MOTION TO APPROVE FOR THE FIRST A FOR A FOR A FOR A.
NO, I WAS, I WAS LIKE THE, UH, THE SITE VARIANCE.
VARI, YOU'RE ASKING FOR THE SITE VARIANCE.
WHAT I WOULD SUGGEST IS YOU MAKE A MOTION, IF YOU WANT ONE OF THE VARIANCES NOT TO BE IN THERE, MAKE IT SUBJECT TO THAT ONE NOT BEING IN THERE.
IT WOULD BE MY RECOMMENDATION IF THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE MOVING TO.
APPRO MAKING A MOTION ON YOU DIDN'T WANNA SEPARATE OUT A AND B, YOU WANT THOSE TO BE TOGETHER.
I WAS JUST, UH, LIKE IF, DO YOU NEED TO VOTE ON BOTH? WE HAVE TO VOTE ON, WE HAVE TO VOTE ON 'EM INDIVIDUALLY ANYWAY.
NOW, WHEN IT COMES TO THE VARIANCES, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS, IF YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, MAKE YOUR MOTION SUBJECT TO ONE OF THOSE NOT BEING APPROVED OR MAKE YOUR MOTION WITHOUT THAT VARIANCE BEING IN THERE.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? ALRIGHT.
I THINK I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION.
IF, IF COMMISSIONER WINTERS MAKES THE, UM, TO EXCLUDE ONE OF THE VARIANCES, WE DON'T GET IT VOTED ON WITH ALL THE VARIANCES.
IT COULD HAVE GOTTEN APPROVED WITH ALL THE VARIANCES, POSSIBLY IF IT WERE PRESENTED THAT WAY.
SO THIS DOESN'T GIVE IT AN OPTION TO HAVE ALL THE VARIANCES.
IF HE MAKES THE, IF HE VOTED ON AND APPROVED, IF HE MAKES THE MOTION UHHUH OF SUBJECT TO ONE OF THOSE NOT BEING THERE, THAT WOULD BE HIS MOTION.
BUT THEY, BUT ANYBODY ELSE CAN MAKE A MOTION TO AS PRESENTED.
AT RECOMMENDATION, LET'S JUST VOTE ON EACH VARIANCE FOR A AND B.
I MAKE A MOTION THAT, UM, WE APPROVE THE, UH, THE, THE SITE VARIANCE FOR THE, UH, FOR THE A MB TO THE, THE CURB CUTS WOULD BE ONE.
THE SECOND IS THE SITE TRIANGLE, AND THE THIRD WOULD BE THE WATER TAP, THE WATER LINES.
SO THE FIRST ONE YOU'RE MAKING A MOTION ON FOR THE, THE CURB CUTS, THE ENTRANCE, THE EGRESS, INGRESS, EGRESS OF THE PROPERTY.
MS. WOODMONT, LET'S DO, SORRY, IF WE'RE GONNA SPLIT UP THOSE VARIANCES, LET'S DO EACH DRIVEWAY.
THE SIDE TRIANGLE AND THE WATER LINES.
I WOULD STATE, STATE THE SECTION, MAN, STATE THE SECTION OF THE CODE.
UM, BELIEVE THAT'S, I, I WILL, I'LL STATE THE CODE THAT IS APPLICABLE.
UH, MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE TO TITLE 21.
WE HAVE A MOTION, UM, TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE, WHICH IS THE CURB CUT.
THE TITLE 21 0 2, 0 1 OH ON SANTA FE.
THAT'S THE FIRST ONE TO BE VOTED ON.
[00:35:01]
I HAVE A SECOND.VARIANCE NUMBER ONE IS APPROVED BY VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
MOVING ON, UH, LOOKING FOR A MOTION, UM, FOR THE SECOND, UH, INGRESS EGRESS, UH, FOR THE PROPERTY, WHICH IS VARIANCE NUMBER TWO, TWO ON HERE.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE TO 21 0 2 0 1 OH A FIVE IN REGARD TO THE 325 FOOT OF SEPARATION, UH, TO 313 FEET.
THAT ONE IS A POOL BY VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE TO 22.6 0.1 EEB REQUIRING 100 FEET, UH, 150 FEET OF SEPARATION ON MILL VALLEY BOULEVARD, UH, TO 141 FEET.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION FOR THAT ONE.
WE HAVE A SECOND BY A VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE VARIANCE TO TITLE 21 0 3 0 7 OH.
UH, REGARDING WATER LINES ALLOWING THE LINE TO BE TERMINATED WITH A FIRE HYDRANT.
ALRIGHT, WE HAVE A MOTION SECOND, AND I HAVE A SECOND.
AND THAT ONE BY VOTE OF ZERO TO FOUR HAS FAILED.
AND MOVING ON TO THE, THE LAST ONE, OR THAT IS THE LAST ONE.
YEAH, I, I JUST WANNA MAKE A COMMENT THAT THE POINT IS I DIDN'T WANT THIS TO FAIL BECAUSE OF ONE VARIANCE.
AND, UH, I JUST THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE BETTER FOR YOU TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ALL, ALL THE OTHERS DONE.
EXCEPT THAT THANK YOU COMMISSION.
MR. JONES, DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE? DO YOU WANNA VOTE ON THE SITE PLAN UNLESS THAT, WITH THAT VARIANCE NOT INCLUDED.
LOOKING FOR A MOTION FOR THE SITE PLAN WITHOUT THE WATERLINE, UH, DEAD END LINE BEING INCLUDED AS A VARIANCE.
I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
SECOND, WE HAVE A SECOND BY A VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
UH, THOSE, OR THAT IS APPROVED AND THAT WILL CONTINUE ON TO CITY COUNCIL MEETING AS OF DECEMBER 8TH, 2025.
AND MR. JOHNS, I ASSUME YOU WOULD ALSO LIKE US TO VOTE ON THE, THE PUD UH, LESS THAT VARIANCE PLA YEAH.
LOOKING FOR A MOTION FOR THAT SAME CONTINGENCY OF THE WATERLINE VARIANCE NOT BEING INCLUDED? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
AND THAT IS APPROVED BY VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
AND THAT MOVES ON TO CITY COUNCIL MEETING DECEMBER 8TH, 2025.
[C. Case No. SP25-00015; Public Hearing and Consideration for a Site Plan application for Edmond Community Church, located at 849 North Westminster Road. (Edmond Community Church; Ward 2)]
MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER C, WHICH IS CASE NUMBER SP TWO FIVE DASH 0 0 0 1 5 PUBLIC HEARING IN CONSIDERATION FOR A SITE PLAN APPLICATION FOR THE EDMOND COMMUNITY CHURCH.THE SUBJECT PROPERTY FOR THIS SITE PLAN IS APPROXIMATELY 4.7 ACRES.
THE MAP SHOWS THE SPECIFIC LOCATION ON THE WEST SIDE OF WESTMINSTER BETWEEN DANFORTH AND HIGHWAY 66.
THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING DETAILS.
IT INCLUDES ONE BUILDING THAT'S APPROXIMATELY 8,400 SQUARE FEET.
IT INCLUDES ACCESS, UM, FROM ONE DRIVE ONTO WESTMINSTER.
THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING AN EXCEPTION TO CONSTRUCTING SIDEWALKS IN THIS PREDOMINANTLY RURAL AREA.
THEY'LL DEDICATE THE REQUIRED RIGHT OF WAY ALONG THEIR ENTIRE FRONTAGE AND ADDRESS THE SIDEWALK NEEDS DURING FUTURE PHASES OF THEIR OVERALL DEVELOPMENT.
PLANNING COMMISSION IS ALLOWED TO, UH, APPROVE THIS EXCEPTION.
[00:40:01]
THE ELEVATIONS, UH, SHOW THE BUILDING TO BE 22 FEET TALL AT ITS HIGHEST POINT.THE FACADE WILL INCLUDE COMPOSITE METAL PANELS WITH STONE VENEER AND METAL TRIM.
STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL, INCLUDING THE EXCEPTION TO THE SIDEWALK REQUIREMENT.
DOES THE APPLICANT WISH TO ADD TO ANYTHING OF THE PRESENTATION OR, UH, HAVE ANY COMMENTS HE'D LIKE TO MAKE REGARDING, UH, THE PRESENTATION FOR YOUR PROJECT? UH, GOOD EVENING.
MOHAMMAD KHAN WITH THE SMC CONSULTING EIGHT 15 WESTMAN 7 3 1 0 6.
UH, I APPRECIATE THE ASSISTANT STAFF HAS PROVIDED THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS APPLICATION.
THIS HAS BEEN IN WORKING FOR A LONG TIME AND UH, WE ARE EXCITED TO PRESENT IT TO THE CITY.
AND THANK YOU FOR CONSIDERING THIS APPLICATION TODAY.
I HAVE PASTOR FOR THE CHURCH, MR. RAY ROSS IS HERE TOO, IF COMMISSION HAS ANY QUESTION ABOUT THE CHURCH ITSELF, CONGREGATION AND THE SIZE AND THEIR FUTURE PLAN.
UH, ONE THING, INSTEAD OF GOING ALL THOSE DETAILS, WHAT KEN IS UH, MENTIONED HERE, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT THESE PUT WAS IN FRONT OF YOU BACK IN 2022.
AND THE SITE PLAN, WHAT YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU MEETS EVERY INTENT OF THAT PUT DOCUMENT IS WHERE TRAFFIC GOES, THE SCREENING GOES, LANDSCAPING GOES, AND THE ONLY ITEM WE ARE SEEKING AN EXCEPTION IS, IS JUST DELAYING THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE SIDEWALK BECAUSE CHURCH HAS FUTURE PLANS TO ADD AMENITIES IN FRONT OF THE, THE PROPERTY THERE.
AND WE FEEL THAT THE, IF CONSTRUCTION TRAFFIC USES THAT AREA, AGAIN, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT THE SIDEWALK WILL GET DAMAGED.
SO WE AGREE TO CONSTRUCT THE SIDEWALK, IT'S JUST ABOUT THE TIMING AND TYING IT TO THE FUTURE PHASE OF THIS.
AND I FEEL LIKE THAT THE STAFF IS IN AGREEMENT WITH THAT, UH, PROPOSAL TOO.
UH, I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.
DO ANY OF THE COMMISSIONERS, UH, HAVE QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME OF THE CITY STAFF OR THE APPLICANT? UH, JUST ON THE TIMELINE OF THE SIDEWALK, DO YOU HAVE, UH, I MEAN, WOULD THERE BE A DEADLINE? I MEAN, WE, UH, WE THOUGHT THAT THE BEST WAY TO ADDRESS THIS IS GETTING INTO AN AGREEMENT WITH THE CITY.
SO THERE WILL BE SOME STIPULATION OF SOME TIMELINE THERE AS WELL AS SOME EXPECTATION.
AND IF THIS BODY IS NOT THERE IN THE FUTURE, THEN THERE WILL BE SOME CONCRETE DOCUMENT IN PLACE FOR STAFF TO FOLLOW UP WITH THE CHURCH.
AND ENGINEERING MAY HAVE MORE TO OFFER ON THIS, BUT FROM STAFF'S PERSPECTIVE, THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IS SECURING THAT RIGHT OF WAY EASEMENT.
AND THAT'LL BE PART OF A, A SOON TO BE, UH, REVIEWED, UH, PRELIMINARY PLAT BY, THAT'LL BE COMING TO PLANNING COMMISSION SOON.
SO THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH THAT, WHEN IT COMES TO A TIMING STANDPOINT, I MEAN, TIMING'S REALLY HARD, BUT NOR WOULD I THINK WE'D WANNA PUT THAT INTO PUD.
BUT, UM, YEAH, IT'LL JUST BE, IT'LL KIND OF BE UP TO THE, THE CHURCH AND THEIR, HOW THEY BUILD OUT THEIR CAMPUS MM-HMM
AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS AS ADDITIONAL PHASES COME ALONG, THEIR CONGREGATION GROWS AND THEY'LL SEE THAT NEED.
UM, AND IT'LL KIND OF NATURALLY OCCUR.
BUT LIKE I SAID, SECURING THAT RIGHT OF AWAY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT, UH, COMPONENT FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OF THE, UH, COMMISSIONERS AT THIS MOMENT? OKAY, SEEING NONE.
AND AS I MENTIONED ON THE LAST ONE, PLEASE ADDRESS ANY QUESTIONS TO THE, TO ME THE CHAIR AND WE'LL GATHER ALL THE QUESTIONS AT ONE TIME AND TRY TO HAVE THE APPLICANT ADDRESS THOSE AS POSSIBLE.
UM, IF YOU HAVE, IF YOU ARE HERE TO SPEAK ON BEFORE, BEFORE OR AGAINST THIS PROP PROJECT, PLEASE COME TO THE DICE AND GIVE US YOUR NAME AND WE'LL SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
JUST A COUPLE OF BLOCKS OR JUST A COUPLE OF LOTS.
UH, GOT FOUR CONCERNS THAT I HAVE ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT.
SO WHEN WE FIRST MET AT THE INITIAL MEETING, UH, ON 4TH OF AUGUST, 2022, AS FAR AS LIKE WATER, UH, SO I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD WATER QUALITY.
UM, THAT INITIAL MEETING, IT WAS DECIDED THAT THE, UH, THAT THIS BILL WOULD REQUIRE A MUNICIPAL WATER HOOKUP.
UH, THE DOCUMENTATION THAT I SAW, I GUESS THEY'RE ASKING FOR A VARIANCE, UH, FOR A PRIVATE WELL.
SO I'M A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT, UM, IS WHAT THAT'S GONNA DO TO OUR WATER QUALITY.
WE'RE NOT EXACTLY WATER RICH OUT THERE.
UH, I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A HOOKUP AT DANFORTH, UH, PREVIOUS CO OR THE PREVIOUS PROJECT GAVE ME A LITTLE BIT INSIGHT ON, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS A DEAD END LINE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOLUTIONS THAT COULD BE ACCOMPLISHED THERE.
UH, SO I AM CONCERNED ABOUT A WELL GOING OUT THERE, HOW MUCH THEY'RE GOING TO USE AND ESPECIALLY FOR
[00:45:01]
FUTURE GROWTH, UH, WHAT THAT'S GONNA DO TO THE QUALITY FOR THE WATER OF THE REST OF US IN THE QUANTITY AS WELL.UH, ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS I HAVE IS ABOUT THE, UH, THE PARKING LOT LIGHTS, UH, AS FAR AS LIKE HOURS OF OPERATION, UH, WHAT IS GONNA BE THEIR OVERALL HEIGHT, UH, THAT KIND OF STUFF ONCE IT'S FINISHED OUT.
UM, MY THIRD ISSUE IS REALLY MORE OF A, A REQUEST OR A COMMENT.
UH, SO THIS WASN'T A PROBLEM WHEN WE FIRST DIS UH, DISCUSSED THIS BACK IN 2022.
UM, BUT THE, UM, WITH THE WIDENING OF, UM, OF 66 THERE, THE, UM, HOW WOULD YOU CALL IT, I GUESS, UH, STREET RACING BURNOUTS, THAT KIND OF STUFF HAS BECOME A REGULAR WEEKEND THING.
UH, MY CONCERN ABOUT THERE BEING A, A PARKING LOT OF THAT SIZE THERE IS THAT IT WILL SPILL OVER BASICALLY INTO OUR BACKYARDS.
I BELIEVE IT'D PROBABLY BE A GOOD IDEA FOR THAT PARKING LOT TO BE GATED IF NO ONE'S LOOKED AT THAT YET.
UH, AND THEN I HAVE A QUESTION AS FAR AS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S ON THE BOOKS FOR FUTURE EXPANSION OF THAT BRIDGE, JUST TO THE SOUTH THERE ON WESTMINSTER, IF THERE'S ANY PLANS IN, IN ORDER TO, UH, WIDEN WESTMINSTER AT THAT POINT.
AND THAT'S JUST A, UH, FOR MY OWN EDIFICATION, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S REALLY MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE PROJECT.
UM, MY PROPERTY BACKS UP TO THIS.
UM, ALSO WE, MY PROPERTY AND THE PEOPLE NEXT TO US THAT ARE NOT HERE, WE'VE EXPRESSED CONCERN ABOUT THE LIGHT POLLUTION.
HOW ARE WE GONNA MANAGE THAT? I KNOW PATRICK TALKED ABOUT IT, SO WE ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
UM, I APPRECIATE PATRICK'S, UM, COMMENT ABOUT THE DRAG RACING 'CAUSE THAT HAS BEEN A BIG THING.
SO I HADN'T EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT THE PARKING LOT, BUT YES.
UM, I ALSO NOTICED THE TREE LINE BREAK THAT THEY HAVE PUT IN THE PLANS THAT THEY'RE GONNA PUT AS A BUFFER ZONE.
BETWEEN US AND ALL THE, ALL OF HIS PROPERTY LINE TO THE NORTH.
'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE ALL OF US BACK UP ON.
SO I'VE SEEN THE TREE PROPOSAL ON THIS PORTION, BUT I'M JUST WONDERING HOW FAR OUT DOES HE PLAN ON, UM, TAKING THE TREE LINE TO THE WEST? BECAUSE THERE'S UH, HIS PROPERTY, NOT JUST THIS PLAN, BUT HIS OVERALL SITE FOR PROJECTS IN THE FUTURE BACK UP TO OUR LINE.
AND IF HE'S GONNA PUT, UH, THE TREE BUFFER THERE NOW, WOULD THEY CONSIDER GOING AHEAD AND JUST BUFFERING THE TREES ALL THE WAY ACROSS THE LINE? UH, BECAUSE I'VE NOTICED THAT THEY HAVE MOWED THAT AND TAKEN OUT A LOT OF THE PLUM THICKETS AND HEDGES AND SUCH THAT WERE THERE AS A BUFFER BEFORE.
SO I WAS JUST WONDERING FOR FUTURE, IS IT, IS IT IN THE LONG RANGE PLANS TO JUST PUT BUFFER ALL THE WAY DOWN THE FENCE LINE PROPERTY WHERE HE RUNS? SO LIGHTS A BIG CONCERN.
AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT ON THE WEST SIDE, RIGHT TO THE NORTH, THE NORTH, THE TREES ON THE NORTH AND THEN YOU WANT TREES.
YOU'D PREFER TREES ON THE WEST AS WELL, CONTINUING TO THE WEST, CONTINUE WEST DOWN THE NORTH PROPERTY.
CURTIS HUFF, 11,000 EAST DANFORTH ROAD.
IT'S LIKE IT'S BEEN MENTIONED.
UH, THE WATER ISSUE IS ALSO A THING.
IT'S LIKE I SAID, THE, THE NEIGHBORING HOMES ARE ALL ON WELLS.
UH, SO THERE IS A CONCERN ABOUT WATER USE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE EXPANDING, UH, WHAT THAT'S GONNA DO TO THE, THE WATER TABLE OUT THERE.
AND A THIRD CONCERN I HAVE, AND I DON'T SEE IT ON THE, THE SITE PLAN INFORMATION I CAN DOWNLOADED FROM THE CITY'S WEBSITE IS THAT THERE'S A NATURAL GAS GATHERING PIPELINE THAT RUNS ALONG THE NORTH EDGE OF THAT SITE.
HAS, HAS THAT BEEN LOOKED INTO? IS THAT'S GONNA AFFECT THE RETENTION POND AND POSSIBLY SOME OTHER THINGS.
THAT LINE MAY NOT BE ACTIVE, BUT THERE WAS, UH, A NATURAL GAS GATHERING PIPELINE RUNNING ACROSS THE NORTH OF THAT, THAT BE A CONCERN.
ANYBODY ELSE WISH TO SPEAK FOR OR AGAINST THIS PROPERTY LAST CHANCE? ALRIGHT, PUBLIC COMMENTS ARE CLOSED.
WOULD THE APPLICANT CARE TO COME UP AND ADDRESS SOME OF THE QUESTIONS? DO YOU HAVE MOST OF 'EM? YOU GOT 'EM WRITTEN DOWN.
YOU GOOD AGAIN, MO KHAN WITH THE SMC FOR THE RECORD? UH, SO THE EASY PART FIRST IS THE SIGHT LIGHTING.
UH, WE ARE, UH, COGNIZANT OF THE LIGHT POLLUTION THERE.
[00:50:01]
SO WE ARE PROPOSING THE SIDE LIGHT HEIGHT TO BE WITHIN THE CITY OF IOWA CODE, WHICH IS NOT TO EXCEED 24 FEET.BUT AS WE ARE MOVING FURTHER NORTH, COMING CLOSER TO THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE, WE HAVE REDUCED THE HEIGHT OF THE, UH, SIDE LIGHTING AND THAT'S UP TO THE 19 FEET.
AND THIS SIDE INVOLVES SOME CUTTING AND LOWERING THE GRADE.
SO WE ARE ALREADY EIGHT TO 10 FEET LOWER THAN THE NORTH AND AS WELL AS THE WEST SIDE.
AND WE ALSO DID THE PHOTOMETRIC FOR SIDE LIGHTING CALCULATION.
AND THERE IS NO ENCROACHMENT OF PHOTO METRICS OR IN TECHNICAL WORK FOOT CANDLE ON THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE.
AND OUR NEAREST LIGHT POLE TO THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE IS 67 FEET.
AND THERE'S A LIGHT POLE IS ONLY 19 FEET TALL, UH, WITH NO ENCROACHMENT ON THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE.
SO, UH, THE, THERE IS A SIX FOOT TALL WOOD MASONRY, UH, WOOD FENCE IS PROPOSED ALONG THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE THERE AS PART OF THIS PROPOSED SITE PLAN.
AND IN THE FUTURE, WHEN ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT IS ADDED TO THE WEST, THE BUFFERING REQUIREMENT AND THE SCREENING REQUIREMENT WILL APPLY AS WELL.
AND THEN THERE IS A LANDSCAPING.
THE SCREENING IS PROVIDED ALONG THE NORTH PROPERTY LINE.
WE ALSO MEET THE SENSITIVE ORDER REQUIREMENT THERE.
OUR NEAREST, OUR BUILDING IS FURTHER SOUTH OF 70 FEET OVER THERE.
SO, UH, AS FAR AS THE WIDENING GOES, UH, WE ARE COMPLYING WITH THE CITY CODE TO WIDEN THE FRONTAGE OF THE PROPOSED SIDE PLAN.
UH, SO WE ADDING A SOUTHBOUND LANE AS WELL AS THERE WILL BE AN ACCELERATION LANE FOR THE SOUTH OF THE DRIVEWAY.
SO THE SOUTHBOUND LANE, WHAT YOU WILL HAVE WILL ACT AS A DIESEL INTO THE DRIVEWAY, BUT THEN YOU HAVE ALSO HAVE AN ACCESS LANE.
AND, UH, AS EARLIER WE MENTIONED, WE ARE DEDICATING THE RIGHT OF WAY REQUIRED.
SO AS PART OF THE DEDICATION OF RIGHT WAY, IT'S REALLY UP TO THE FUTURE PLANS FOR WHATEVER FURTHER IMPROVEMENTS ARE DONE.
IF THE PROPERTY TO THE, THE REMAINDER OF THE PROPERTY TO THE SOUTH IS DEVELOPED IN THE FUTURE, THEN APPLICANT WILL BE REQUIRED TO WIDEN OR ADD, ADD ADDITIONAL WIDENING, UH, ON THE WESTMINSTER AS WELL THERE.
SO NOW TO THE WAR, WELL, UH, I HEARD THE WORD VARIANCE.
WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR ANY VARIANCE HERE, UH, SINCE THERE IS NO CITY WATER THERE.
SO IT'LL COMPLY, IT'LL COMPLY WITH THE DEQ REQUIREMENT, UH, FOR THE ONSITE CONVENTIONAL SANITATION, LATERAL LINES AS WELL AS FOR DRAWING THE WATER WELL.
UH, WE DON'T THINK THAT, UH, WITH THIS SIZE OF THE BUILDING, UH, THERE WILL BE ANY ADVERSE IMPACT TO THE QUANTITY OF THE, UH, WATER AND UNDERGROUND WATER OR, OR TO THE WATER.
PLUS THE NATURE ITSELF HAS CREATED A LARGE SWAT OF FLOODPLAIN AROUND THE PROPERTY AND THAT FLOODPLAIN ITSELF, ALLOWING THE WATER TO SATURATE INTO THE GROUND AND SUPPLEMENT THE NATURAL GROUND WATERS THERE.
SO, UH, WE DON'T THINK IT'S A CONCERN FOR THIS SIDE.
PLUS THE WATER WELL WILL COMPLY WITH THE DEQ REGULATION THERE.
AS FAR AS DEPTH GOES, SIZE GOES, HOW MUCH OF THE YIELD WILL COME FROM THE WATER? WELL, SO IT'LL MEET ALL THE DEQ AND CITY STANDARDS.
AND ANY COMMENTS ON THE GAS GATHERING PIPELINE? ARE YOU AWARE OF THE YES.
UH, SO WITH THE DEDICATION OF THE 70 FOOT OF RIGHT OF WAY, UH, WE FEEL LIKE THAT, UH, THERE'S ENOUGH SPACE THERE FOR EXTENSION OF ANY LINE AND CAST AWAY.
IF YOU DON'T MIND PLEASE COMING HERE, WE WOULD TO SPEAK TO THE, THE YES LINE.
UH, UM, PASTOR RAY STRAUSS, EDMOND COMMUNITY CHURCH, UH, CHAIRMAN, COMMISSIONER'S STAFF, UM, ONG WAS OUT THERE THIS LAST WEEK AND THEY ARE BURYING THE LINE AND EXTENDING THAT BEFORE IT GETS TO OUR PROPERTY ACROSS THE STREET INTO ARCADIA.
AND THEY'RE TAKING THAT AND SLOWLY TAPERING THAT DOWN TO 25 FEET.
THEY'RE ACTUALLY TAKING THAT 10 FEET UNDERNEATH, UH, THE RIVER THERE AND, AND MA AMAZING ENGINEERING.
BUT, UM, THAT IS NOT ON OUR PROPERTY.
IT'S A FOUR INCH LINE THAT'S GOING DOWN WESTMINSTER IN ARCADIA.
I WAS REFERRING TO A LINE THAT RUNS EAST WEST KIND OF PARALLEL TO THE PROPERTY LINE
SO IN THE, IN THE PACKAGE, YOU'LL SEE THE SIDE PLAN THERE AND, UH, THERE ARE NO EASEMENTS OR ANYTHING ON
[00:55:01]
THE PROPERTY ITSELF, UH, WHICH WOULD INDICATE THAT THAT LINE ITSELF IS IN CONFLICT WITH THE SITE PLAN.THE ONLY GAS GA, UH, GAS GATHERING LINE WE ARE AWARE OF IS, WHICH IS ON THE WEST SIDE OF WESTMINSTER ROAD, SOUTH OF THE SITE OVER THERE.
AND THERE IS PLENTY OF DEDICATION OF RIGHT AWAY THERE FOR FUTURE EXCHANGE.
AND YOU WOULD'VE FOUND THE GAS GATHERING LINE THAT IN, IN A SURVEY THAT I'M SURE YOU'VE ALREADY DONE.
AND AGAIN, THE HALF, THE WEST HALF IS IN CITY OF EDMUND LIMIT AND ANYTIME THIS FRANCHISE UTILITY COME, COME IN AND DO THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE, THEY HAVE TO GET RIGHT AWAY, USE PERMIT FROM THE CITY.
ALL RIGHT, ANY FINAL COMMENTS OF THE COMMISSIONERS BEFORE WE LOOK FOR A MOTION? OKAY.
LOOKING FOR A MOTION ON THIS PROJECT AS PRESENTED.
I WILL MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.
WE HAVE A SECOND BY A VOTE OF FOUR TO ZERO.
UH, THIS AGENDA ITEM IS APPROVED AND ENDS HERE TONIGHT.
WE ARE ARE LOOKING AT, SO AT THIS MOMENT IS THE TIME FOR CITIZENS' COMMENTS.
THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR RESIDENTS AND NON-RESIDENTS TO ADDRESS THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON PLANNING COMMISSION RELATED ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA OR SCHEDULED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING.
ALL REMARKS MUST BE DIRECTED TO THE CHAIR OF THE MEETING, ARE LIMITED TO THREE NIGHTS OR LESS, AND MUST OTHERWISE BE MADE IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION ONE OF THE CITY HALL OF THE CITY COUNCIL PUBLIC WORKS AUTHORITY RULES.
UM, PLEASE NOTE THE MEMBERS OF THE POOL OR I'M SORRY.
SO WE HAVE EVERYBODY THAT WISHES TO SPEAK FOR CITIZENS'.
COMMENTS RIGHT NOW, HEARING NONE OR CITIZENS' COMMENTS ARE, UH, CLOSED.
MEMO TO COMMENTS FROM PLANNING COMMISSION CHAIR AND MEMBERS, I HAVE NO ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.
DOES ANY COMMISSIONERS WISH TO SPEAK? ALRIGHT, SEEING NONE, THAT IS CLOSED AS WELL.
NOW LOOKING FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SO MOVED.
SECOND AND A SECOND AND WE ARE ADJOURNED.